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Dec-18-2009 01:53printcomments

Beck, Limbaugh, O'Reilly; Ties to Racism & Murder?

You bet, their words of hate have led to horrible murders, and it is all documented, talk about having blood on your hands.

Salem-News.com
Surely they are as anti-racist as the rest of us, right, right?

(SALEM, Ore.) - Those who believe right-wing politics are under-represented in today's American media, may enjoy this video segment from MSNBC's Keith Olbermann.

Taking on the feral dogs of the talk show circuit, Olbermann exposes Limbaugh and O'Reilly, and most of all the overtly racist Glenn Beck, for their ironically dangerous statements about unfair media bias.

In the case of each of these hardliner right-wing abortion protesting talk show hosts, is a significant crime that took place on U.S. soil.

In one case three police officers died. The killer, Richard Poplawski, ambushed and killed three policemen outside Pittsburgh on April 4th, 2008.

He was clearly inspired by Beck, writing that "He was ready for the sh*t to hit the fan, the end of the world as we know it because Obama is coming for my guns", which had been Beck's most-used lines until last March.

Three cops - nice work Glenn Beck, you sure made America a great place with that one.

Poplawski also left a message on the website StormFront, to what else but a Glenn Beck video.

Then there is James Atkinson, who entered Tennessee Church and killed two people over the apparent words of one of O'Reilly's analysts.

He said at the time, "This is a symbolic killing, who I wanted to kill was every Democrat in the House."

I hear friends say they listen to Beck but that he's harmless. I have never heard a bigger mistake. None of these right-wing hardliners ever served in the military - I am sorry that they are so fully able to scare people into following them so well; it is a sad perspective for America.

Or maybe we're all the exact same people who have always inhabited the earth, and maybe the majority of people who really get into these guys were actually Nazis in a former life, it would add up.

There is nothing more disgusting than a bunch of angry white men stirring other scared white men into a frenzy, it can be deadly for large groups of people when white people, like Adolf Hitler, get a firm hold on things.

Hitler, like these American talk show hosts, drove people with lies and fear. These men are liars, and they are the very worst kind.


Related:

Courtesy: Fixed News Channel. Join the Forum to discuss this! It's fast, easy and free! tinyurl.com/fixedforum

=================================================
Tim King is a former U.S. Marine with twenty years of experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist, reporter and assignment editor. In addition to his role as a war correspondent, this Los Angeles native serves as Salem-News.com's Executive News Editor.
Tim spent the winter of 2006/07 covering the war in Afghanistan, and he was in Iraq over the summer of 2008, reporting from the war while embedded with both the U.S. Army and the Marines. Tim holds numerous awards for reporting, photography, writing and editing, including the Oregon AP Award for Spot News Photographer of the Year (2004), the first place Electronic Media Award in Spot News, Las Vegas, (1998), Oregon AP Cooperation Award (1991); and several other awards including the 2005 Red Cross Good Neighborhood Award for reporting. Serving the community in very real terms, Salem-News.com is the nation's only truly independent high traffic news Website, affiliated with Google News and several other major search engines and news aggregators.
You can send Tim an email at this address: newsroom@salem-news.com




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Melba N. December 27, 2009 12:26 am (Pacific time)

Hey, accomplished journalist and reflexive user of Godwin's Law: Learn to spell Hitler's first name correctly before comparing people to him, OK, genius?

Tim King: I find it interesting that you would jump to Godwin's Law.  You must feel like you did Hitler a real service.  I think you need to look to Godwin's cultural group to find the biggest abusers of Nazi accusations.


A.M. December 24, 2009 10:33 am (Pacific time)

On my way out the door, but this is an interesting development so will post. I don't watch any of the characters mentioned in this article, but I am a regular viewer of MSNBC and saw the below story which is showing a meltdown by not just the middle and right over Obama, but the far left: "MSNBC - Lawrence O'Donnell calls out Obama for lying to Wash Post re: Public Option support MSNBC Countdown ^ | 12-23-09 | MSNBC Lawrence O'Donnell proves that Obama is trying to rewrite history in regards to his promise for support of the Public Option. Countdown interview between LO and Washington Post's Ezra Klein. They also nail Obama for being against the Individual Mandate, before he was for it. And now he's against it again, even though it is in the Senate bill because the Mandate is very unpopular with the majority of American, Left, Right and Center. (Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ..."


John December 21, 2009 8:39 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. King, Nazis...Really? It's shameful that this weak article was even posted as a retort to violence against liberals and well who else. Aside from your lack of evidence about inciting racial violence, you provide little justification for your stance…using terminology like Nazi and loose parallels, devalues the term for future generations and is not appreciated. The practices of the Nazi party were despicable, morally reprehensible, and without the slightest chance for redemption, thus when the comparison is made to Nazi’s in such a frivolous manner, even in jest, it lessens the sting of such a pejorative term. Furthermore, demonizing these talk show hosts fails to accomplish your mission. While each named person often promotes a simplistic and ignorant message, your response was weak at best. Please do not lable those who are displeased with the status quo in such a vile way.john.morris@wku.edu (old e-mail)

Tim King: Thanks for your comment John, but I think that there are those in this world who dare to speak the words of these men, and those who don't.  After all of the injustice this nation is responsible for, they are the ones with no remorse for all of the hardship of this world, and if you think I'm out of line for casting Beck as a Nazi after he posed like that for his own book, chose to represent himself that way... we just have to agree to disagree.  And for the record, this article has gotten a lot of traffic and I don't think that is the sign of a weak piece, unless your math formulas are totally different than mine. 


Ken December 21, 2009 5:05 pm (Pacific time)

Conservative Talk Show hosts have been doing the job for the media for years. They report what is omitted, hence we can have facts to base our opinion on. These guys are heroes exposing Liberal shame and traitorous activities daily and the majority of the country knows it. The Liberal Socialist who wrote this is 100% brainwashed and needs deprogramming by someone.Can this Lib explain why else would the Liberal Democrats be shutting down talk radio other than to squelch free speech? And don't say it's hate speech, that is a lie. Today's Democrats are Totalatarian's and on a fast track to destroy free enterprise. I predict Obama will attempt to alter/amend the Constitution and self appoint himself dictator. That's the way it is.

Tim King: Wow, you're sure a funny little man (assuming), do you get up and do a little heil Hitler in the mirror every morning?  What you should do is get some toilet paper and wipe those lips off, you are full of it! 

The one thing I know God didn't want us to do on this earth, and that is to act like the morons in this story by being professional liars (you are only an amateur) and generating boatloads of hate.    If anyone knows anything, it is that Democrats are not the party that launches totalitarian (W.) enactments.  I'm not all that happy with Obama, but I know I don't like you or your heroes.  Hate speech, hate speech hate speech, that is right.  


Osotan; December 21, 2009 3:30 am (Pacific time)

D.Fredricks; Fascinating insight. I'd long suspected he may be using his camcorder to hide behind when the booby trapped 105 m.m. artillery rounds go off in a crowded area or the frontier if that's where he'd escaped to, evading responsible journalism while in a combat zone interviewing vets from Oregon and beyond! Because of your insight we now know his real agenda!.,helping injured vets and families from toxic military sites when he could sit behind a microphone, gain weight and host his own talk show.,shame! I've known him for years and never saw it as clearly as you have in your statement. I see his using these experiences to manipulate opinion as a cheap trick, to justify the growing number of citizens who are sick of the liars running the show. Keep those letters and comments coming! Expose this guy for what he is.,an on-sight reporter who doesn't "toe the line", I pity him.,he could have been a real Rivera or more if he'd stop hiding behind his personal code of investigative journalism. Do you think he voted democrat?.,more shame!.,and furthermore Mr.Ruark.,how could you suggest I am interested in "commercial sarcasm"? Surely you have erred, with someone else in mind.,as the mere thought of it flees my true purpose.,but if you think you can set me up with a top agent, I think we can reach accomodation.


Henry Clay Ruark December 20, 2009 6:37 pm (Pacific time)

Osotan: You ever consider doing sarcasm commercially ? Can put you in touch with sharp agent, for small fee on your first paying assignment.


D. Fredricks December 20, 2009 5:26 pm (Pacific time)

Tim, you hide behind your few years in the Corp as an excuse to do what you do and say what you say. Ok, fine. Don't use it to rationalize your work or this website. I feel sorry for you and the other Marines you were assigned with, as they must now live with the shame of having you associated with the same unit. You are no better that anyone else that uses their position (or pulpit in your case) to degradate dissenters. Marines have Honor, Honor to allow- without attack, people's right to say what they want- without personal insult. Your subtle word smithing and innuendos produce backhanded insults proving that if you were really a Marine, that you forgot where your Honor is.

Tim King: D., I could not be a more open or accessible person.  I have been in news for a long time, over twenty years.  In your opinion, does that also somehow not count?  I honestly believe that I am very in tune with a large and ever growing number of Americans who want a real future and are sick and tired of all of the horrible events in recent years.  I was a Marine, so what?  You say I hide behind that, why, because it is simply in my bio?  I write about my personal experience at El Toro, helping expose the contamination of the base today in an effort to save the lives of Marines and Orange County residents,  and I caught up with my old Marine unit in Iraq last year.  I never would have seen that as hiding.   


Henry Clay Ruark December 20, 2009 3:00 pm (Pacific time)

Dan, Tim:
You're too kind re sommers revealing remarks.
What he flourishes openly here is psychological symptom well recognized by those who have reason to know.
Most recent cognitive research indicates there is truly difference easily detectable for those who so suffer, under variety of semi-political labels.


Jacob Ornstein December 20, 2009 8:56 am (Pacific time)

I find this article simply nothing more than a partisan rant based on emotion not a clear reflection of the public record. Editor I am also a combat veteran and no doubt am much more knowledgable than you on both Afghanistan and Iraq and the associated dynamics with these areas. When it comes to statements by people who have caused harm to others which have come from high profile individuals, then John Kerry (he also caused significant harm to Vietnam veterans with false assertions), Sen. Durbin, Rep. Murtha and a whole host of other elected politicans and media personalities. If you say you know how us active duty and veterans feel about these people you mentioned above, then what are your sources? Just yourself? What makes you think you know better than me or professional pollsters? I would never call you a facist editor, because you do not have any power. So how do you explain the below poll, and can you find one (professionally constructed) that says anything different? The real hate and the eventually murders and violent acts come from the left. Soon we will remove them from all future chances of causing further harm. Our main enemy are the domestic ones, the ones who mislead. "
A Military Times poll indicates landslide support for Republican presidential candidate John McCain. While McCain captured 68 percent of the military vote, his Democratic rival Barack Obama had 23 percent. A racial divide was immediately evident among the respondents. Nearly eight in 10 black service members chose Obama, while McCain captured 76 percent of white voters and 63 percent of Hispanic voters. Numbers among men and women respondents were also visibly different. Men overwhelmingly said they would vote for McCain, 70 percent to 22 percent. But among women the margin was much closer: 53 percent support McCain, while 36 percent support Obama. U.S. troops also said in the poll that they prefer McCain to handle the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — 74 percent said McCain would perform better, while just 19 percent said Obama would. There was a racial divide on these issues, as well. Black service members said the economy was the No. 1 issue that affected their vote, and white troops said character was paramount. Judging by the numbers, it appears that the Democratic Party has not made much inroads into the traditionally Republican military. (ANI)

Editor: So the name isn't John Burt today? Do you even know your actual name?


dave2181 December 20, 2009 7:29 am (Pacific time)

Most people would say it would be racist if you were white. Explain why it isn't racist.


susan December 20, 2009 1:34 am (Pacific time)

I like to know why the story was taken off the main page a day after it was published. And personally I believe that Tim King went a little to far with his liberal opinion. Stop making excuses for people committing crimes. If you don't like conservative radio, don't listen to it. But reality is that very view people listen to progressive or liberal talk radio. There are a lot of smart people out there who don't drink the cool aid from the liberals. I like to see Tim King looking for another job.

Tim King: Susan, if you aren't bothered by these guys then there is nothing I can say that will matter to you. In all of my heart, with regard to everything in the world that is right or otherwise, I believe these characters are here to teach hate and to exploit human weakness. You obviously aren't bothered by the prejudice, that is a "liberal" cause and how about the way O'Reilly slammed American WWII vets without apologizing? Another "liberal" cause I suppose? People who are actually smart, that listen to that BS propaganda, are very similar to the Germans of the 1930's, in fact it is my belief that if reincarnation is possible, that your lot is one and the same. So, carry on with your petty chubby white male spokesman, you obviously as a "smart" person fail to understand how much these characters undermine the efforts to bolster the importance your own gender with their "feminist" talk, but then equality for women just like not torturing people, starting unprovoked wars of aggression, etc., are all liberal causes.


dave2181 December 19, 2009 8:59 pm (Pacific time)

So you're saying Dave Willoughby - Dayton Crime Examiner Is wrong? He provided a few
Obama racist quotes: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'  That hate hadn’t gone away,' he wrote, 'blaming' white people — some cruel, some ignorant, sometimes a single face, sometimes just a faceless image of a system claiming power over our lives.'   'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.' While in college, Obama wrote (he) disapproved of what he called other "half-breeds” who gravitated toward whites instead of blacks.  So that doesn't sound racist?

Tim King: Nope


Osotan; December 19, 2009 8:32 pm (Pacific time)

great comment sommers!! concise and sufficiently researched for maximum control at minimum input.,you ever thought of running for political office? With so much leftist drivel to wade through these days, we the people need a balanced.,imbedded, opinion based on implanted certainty, supplied by our trusted media like FUX.,CNN.,ABC.,NBC,and don't forget geraldo and rush opening their own circus named "Homeland".,and the rest of these hallowed manipulative channels owned by the corperations who own the government, rather than comparative analysis, which only confuses those who think things over. I like your style, it's like an NHL goalie named Truman saying "the puck stops here!". If not politics how about your own talk show? I'm thinking of my own show too, I'd call it "Mad As Hell.,I Can't Take Anymore" and you could be my first guest interview. Tim King's obvious one sided.,biased.,racist.,liberal.,non-republican,facist.,neo-left of true center neo-right.,anti israel observations of the U.S. present foreign and domestic policies could be on the same show., but only for token contrast and ONLY allowed to speak if he publically agreed.,under a secret oath spoken in Latin, that nineteen Arabs with box cutters hijacked four commercial airliners commanded and flown by ex-military fighter pilots, Arabs who from a cell phone in a cave on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border neutralized our entire countries air and missile defence system for at least four hours and used these airliners in a "Kamakaze" attack on America, while cheney and bush hid out in their respective bunkers. I don't think Mr. King would agree to these terms so he would be effectivly silenced.,and you could promote your own agenda without resorting to thorough investigative journalism. Shrewd or what? Let me know.


JAY December 19, 2009 8:02 pm (Pacific time)

There has been only one serious hate attack this year associated with the tea party movement. That occurred when SEIU thugs attacked black conservative Kenneth Gladney. They called him the N word, beat him to the ground and started kicking him. Tea party people including older women stepped between the SEIU thugs and the fallen black man saving him from a continued beating.


sommers December 19, 2009 3:32 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. King is so obviously biased beyond any kind of thought process. This article is nothing other than far left opinion.
I get similar feelings as he gets when I watch K Olbermann. Except I can't watch K. Olbermann. So I didn't watch the video.

Tim King: thanks for the compliment, you know the first thing that comes to mind is that being able to actually see into the enemy's camp, is something that even the most basic military tactician wound not resist.  You don't watch Olbermann because he speaks the truth and it contradicts you and makes you wrong.  Hell, I understand why you don't do it, it is the neocon makeup.  You guys base almost nothing on actual facts or knowledge, you simply can't.

 

This is Daniel. I can't resist adding a comment. I've used this example before and here it is again. In the early 17th century the Church Fathers refused to look through Galileo's telescope because, as far as they were concerned, they knew what the truth was and looking through the telescope could not possibly contradict them. Sounds like the same psychology at work here. Sommers will not view the Olberman video. Olberman can't possibly say anything that might affect Sommers' thinking, so he refuses it. This is a classic example of an intellectual blindspot.


Vic December 19, 2009 8:20 am (Pacific time)

What I appreciate about S-N is that it is ,in my mind, neither "left" nor "right". I have been blocked from the so-called "Leftist" Portland Indymedia, and also the comment section of KATU. And I gotta say, I know of very few people who have put their ass on the line and dedicated their life to the original American principles of justice, democracy, fairness (for everyone)and discourse (which is a necessary aspect of democracy),as Tim King and the staff of S-N. Talk and cheap shots are easy and cheap. I first came on this site after hearing about a news site in Salem run by Marines. I thought "Oh God..more "Kill-em-all" BS"....I first logged on to cause trouble, or so I thought. I was very anti-military and saw all military people through the same hateful lens. Looking back I feel stupid for falling for the same hateful thinking and prejudices that I decried in others. Hate makes people stupid and reactive...I appreciate the softening of my heart and the broader and more inclusive viewpoint that my interaction here has brought!I feel like I am a better AMERICAN and PERSON as a result. Thank you !

Tim King: Vic, I remember when you first wrote those comments, I read them from Afghanistan and I noted how strong your feelings were. Osotan who was also a Marine, made comments in the same threads, and it was strange how much you two ultimately remind me of each other. Over time you and I became friends as he and I are friends, and I learned to note even more strinkingly how similar the personality traits are. It all comes down to conviction, most people sell out and I'm fortunate to say that some of my friends don't, they hold onto their values and stand up for the right things, regardless of the popularity factor. Thanks for your comment brother


Henry Clay Ruark December 19, 2009 7:25 am (Pacific time)

JFF:
Your confusion in reliance on dead-terminology of "left" and "right" --especially in terms of this issue and those whose behavior has put them into an entirely different category-- demonstrates beautifully the "UN-informed OR Mis-informed" truism often repeated here.

Do you dare contend that such recorded behavior, heard and seen by millions of real Americans, distinguishes these three as some special-patriot cabal? Perhaps in a new party which you wish to join ?

Do you endorse horrendous, denigrating, humiliating, often untrue and obviously malign actions, as clearly seen and heard on national-tv "news" ?
With unavoidable damage to first news-channel function and reputation, and further to the very essential faith we must retain in our governance system --or fail rapidly ?

That illuminates intensely precisely the problem with commenteers like you which Tim makes so clear.

For more detailed analysis of this very peculiar and very damaging-to-democracy attitude, a new American plague as insidious as H1N1 and with somewhat similar surafacing/essences, see my upcoming Op Ed.

You might well review also Dan Johnson's ongoing series exploring unsavory truths re our system,to help initiate what citizen action it will take to return our nation to the principles laid out for us by the Founders. "See also" any summary of the Federalist Papers -summary since you will never understand the original.

Have a good Christmas, and may you receive the presence you deserve - NOT misspelled !


Just for fun. December 18, 2009 8:40 pm (Pacific time)

You're obviously a hard core leftist who has nothing better to do than report false accusations that, with no surprise, cannot back up your info with any hard core evidence. At least Glenn Beck has a leg up on you for that one! Instead of continuing the lost war on Fox News, why don't you ask your hard core leftist politicians why they didn't keep their promise on Fiscal Responsibility, when all they've done is go against everything they've campaigned for?

Tim King: To take issue with Glenn Beck does not make one a hardcore leftist.  I love the terminology that you guys toss out.  Beck declared that Barack Obama is a racist, and even my most right wing friends do not make that accusation.  That comment alone from Beck, clearly labels him as a racist.  He incites white people to believe that a black President is racist, what part of that can you not see?  I am a former Marine, I have covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through the eyes of the soldiers and Marines and they are 98% positive.  I don't know what you could really want to more clearly know that I love my country and have a great deal of respect for the people in the military, that is why I tell their stories and constantly rally for veterans.  You really should figure out who you are talking to, being against jerks like Beck and Limbaugh and O'Reilly, does not make one any less patriotic or American.  O'Reilly is the one who pinned the Nazi war crimes at Malmedy on American WWII servicemen, when it was the other way around, factually.  (Not that O'Reilly works in terms of facts or anything)  The SOB lied about Americans in WWII for the benefit of the Nazi's; even lamenting how "Americans shot unarmed SS guards", when a group of SS guards had opened fire on a group of American prisoners.  We happen to have a WWII vet in our ranks at Salem-News.com who fought and killed Nazi's in France and watched his friends mowed down by machine gun fire.  Nobody appreciates a non-veteran blabbermouth like your hero O'Reilly rewriting history, hanging the crimes of the Nazi's on my brother Americans.

Real Americans question the things that are wrong with their country, but not needlessly or through prejudice.  We honor and celebrate what is right, and we don't do it blindly, or we might run the risk of ending up like you.


Henry Clay Ruark December 18, 2009 3:09 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Anon 1:21 pm. is perfect example of those too seriously psychologically impaired to even defend their own statements via signing their stuff. See upcoming Op Ed for more on this diminishing cowardly tribe, distiguished only by their lack of self-knowledge enough to understand their own behavior. We are fortunate to possess opportunity for open, honest democratic dialog on S-N, and should make sure all-such as this understand that their similar behavior only reveals their weak/kneed, weak-headed and woefully deprived status and their deceitful action.


Henry Clay Ruark December 18, 2009 8:06 pm (Pacific time)

Ablaut: Legally, causation is known as somewhat difficult of court-acceptable proof, as reporter with deep court experience will tell you, and verifiable via any attorney. But report states what most rational, reasonable observers will agree: Closely-worded line from Beck, repeated by perpetrator, surely deserves recognition that murderer was influenced by those very words uttered on-air, heard and understood. Causation might involve the actual statement by murderer that it was that line which triggered his final attack, but even without that, the phraseology in this report is as accurate as possible given these circumstances. It should surely be enough for most readers here, I do believe, which may explain the general tone of comments. There are other similar occasions adding to the overall surround involved as background for this report, of which I am sure the writer is fully aware, and almost surely took into full consideration. From experience in coverage of some such situations over some 50 years, I can recall at least five classic cases very close to this one --which for me more than justifies the story language. Re somewhat irrelevant line of comments, that's plague for far too many blogs. See upcoming Op Ed for more detail on this, with ref. to strong new book covering that part of the Internet beat. Thank you for your insight and for seeking further depth from other commenteers !!


ablaut December 18, 2009 3:55 pm (Pacific time)

I'm confused by the comments here. It seems that no one cares to discuss the text above and whether or not the opinion conclusion of "ties to racism and murder" is valid. Instead, everyone seems inclined to post polarizing statements...Welcome to the internet!


Soldier of Fortune December 18, 2009 2:28 pm (Pacific time)

Beck is a disease


Henry Clay Ruark December 18, 2009 1:45 pm (Pacific time)

Wendy et al: Every "opinion" depends on source for ANY relevance...and source-behavior, inevitably judged by values each observer holds, determines value or lack of value for that statement, from that speaker. (A true opinion is one deeply informed by factual research, not simple b-button feeling.) Given that incontrovertible truth of communication, the behavior of these three, as judged by their own colleagues and contemporaries in their claimed profession, is deeply, ultimately and nearly now universally that they deserve little professional notice and much continuing contempt for what is obviously, on behavior alone, unavoidably, and continuously pursuit of the dollar rather than of any truth involved. There are only three possible levels of behavioral understanding involved here: UN-informed, Mis-informed, or Malign-Intent. Take your pick --which in and of itself will reflect your own communications level.


Anonymous December 18, 2009 1:21 pm (Pacific time)

Looking at the comments it appears that no one gives two hoots about this article and the premise it does not make. And then some poster says that people are turning away from their shows, what planet is he from? Pick up a paperor look at this website and tell me that people prefer this crap to some outfit like FOX. This site is fading, and will never go anywhere but down. Far left crap is dead, gone.

Editor: Pick up a paperor?  What in the heck are you trying to say?  I have received numerous emails today from people thanking me for this story today.  FOX is a total joke and they are nothing but a propaganda source.  Obviously you didn't watch the video.  Your kind is fully exposed and your fascism is done in the world of politics, bullies only last so long.  That is why your people are out of office.  If you think we aren't gaining visitors, you are wrong, check Alexa.com.  Salem-News.com has never seen so many visitors.  You use different names when you comment here because your viewpoint is a coward's vision.  I see that instead of picking a new name today that you just left it blank, you always use different names when you leave comments here, it is laughable.


Wendy December 18, 2009 8:32 am (Pacific time)

This is ridiculous! When are liberals going to allow there to open debate in this world? We need to be THINKERS! What is wrong with having two sides of the debate. I am not saying these guys are right on everything but come one give them a break and let others have an opinion


Thomas December 18, 2009 10:43 am (Pacific time)

Is this in reference to the same Andrew Bernard Olberman that recently said that the dems AND the president, if voting for the health care bill, will be doing so at their own peril.


Henry Clay Ruark December 18, 2009 10:39 am (Pacific time)

Friend DanieL; Here again we disagree; I do believe most rational, reasonable, cogitating Americans have long ago fully characterized these three, right along with Murdoch et al in the misguided, mismanaged and manipulated once-free U.S. press. That's one major reason for the overwhelming turn by many of them to reliable, honest, open channels like S-N, which for those who will explore, is now underway nationally. There are many more very "serious" symptoms and situations showing this as one major occurrence of our early 21st Century. Might even put together an Op Ed (again !) on that very intriguing development, which all three of the major academic professional journals have been exploring for some months now.


ablaut December 18, 2009 10:38 am (Pacific time)

Glenn Beck drives me bonkers, but you fail to establish how he "clearly" inspired the shooting of three cops. (Bear with me...) You only establish that the shooter was afraid of diminished gun right, as is Beck. I understand there is correlation; but you can not prove causation! So this is clearly an opinion piece and not a news article. I wish people would stop shooting the messengers (annoying or not) for the atrocious acts others -- both "sides" do this and it gets really old. Likewise, the Hitler bit is so overdone by both "sides" that it hurts your credibility, in my opinion.


Daniel Johnson December 18, 2009 10:21 am (Pacific time)

Wendy: I suggest that these guys don't have opinions, they have bludgeons.


Henry Clay Ruark December 18, 2009 10:05 am (Pacific time)

Wendy: "Liberal" openness started even before the Reformation --indeed, was main cause that occurred, Wendy. That was followed by the Enlightment, commonly widely understood as motivated by the earlier liberal initiation. Read your history, to see where constant struggle has been to bring opposing forces into open discussion/dialog, from monarchical days until current times. (Booklist available to you for free.) Standard technique for the opposition (under ANY name !) has always been "deny, defy, delay and try to defeat each and every progressive move", be it by liberal-label or any other name for that essential forward-drive that in all recorded history has fully characterized the continuing growth of civilization -and especially of democracy. You will undoubtedly enjoy further exploration and thus will become informed on these truths just stated, as the incontrovertible facts at the heart of all matters, esp. now as we start a new Century,with the opportunity to reshape the world as we have known it. Every world religion relates some version or other of these events, which should tell you something profound about their truth.


Wendy December 18, 2009 8:33 am (Pacific time)

Where did my comment go? Oh that's right you people don't want to know any other opinons. Get a Life!

EDITOR: Wendy, your comment went into the SPAM file, and was manually retrieved. A little patience would get you a long way.


dave2181 December 18, 2009 8:57 am (Pacific time)

It's really hard to take you guys seriously.


Henry Clay Ruark December 18, 2009 8:54 am (Pacific time)

These three are notable for their inevitable reliance on proven heavy-dollar generation of psychologically erotic product rotten as pornography itself. Dollars drive their desires and devotions despite proven damage they all know they do, well-told by many colleagues and multiple major critics. That's WHY they peddle what they find appeals, provably catering to common character of mutual coverage, carefully contrived to carve out only whatever titillates and will tickle the mass-mind of that segment which knows no better than to fall for their own falsified view of realities NOW. There have been-such ever since communication began,and there is always the danger of even some cogitating-capables falling into the trap of the easy-and-silly but false abd only seeming-wise stuff. Proven remedy is rightful castigation and full-factual reversal by renewed efforts from responsible,accountable professionals via checkable rebuttal and remedial facts, skillfully applied in open channels,with direct challenge to those habitually addicted to imbibe the elixir of real assorted truths.


Wendy December 18, 2009 8:31 am (Pacific time)

This is ridiculous! When are liberals going to allow there to open debate in this world? We need to be THINKERS! What is wrong with having two sides of the debate. I am not saying these guys are right on everything but come one give them a break and let others have an opinion

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