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Nov-29-2007 05:19printcomments



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Darla Landrus Mau Hagan September 12, 2012 7:45 pm (Pacific time)

please make a rating pole of anonymous numbed of women who been in cardv shelters and allowing the abuser to contact who they been abusing just by making random calls to cardv shelters, kicking the women and or children back to the abuser just because the workers anounce in court who they work for, of the cost of that mistake losing their kids and or life?

~Anonymous Coward~ October 28, 2010 1:14 am (Pacific time)

Vic is just jealous because he doesn't look as good as Coral. I actually worked for Mr Warner for a VERY SHORT time, it was a horrible experience.

TINY November 27, 2009 9:18 pm (Pacific time)


Barbara October 10, 2009 4:43 pm (Pacific time)

Vic, I think your REAL name is Marty Warner. Or, you're just another mysogynist who can't handle a real woman having anything intelligent and meaningful to say. Much less a beautiful woman like Coral. No, I still think you're Marty Warner, the wife beater, child stealer, stalker, and religious wolf in sheep's duds. At the end of the day, when your life is ebbing, perhaps then you will come to the realization that you were the looser after all, not Coral.

William October 17, 2008 12:52 am (Pacific time)

Wow. I'm from the midwest and grew up in the sticks. I grew up amongst hicks and mentally unstable religious nuts, but this takes the cake. I'm actually pretty shocked right now, especially over the Oregon Medical Board decision. It simply goes to reinforce my dim view of this country and humanity. Ignorant, self-serving, sickening fanatics are everywhere. And are, unfortunately, far too regularly allowed to hold positions of authority.

Coral Anika Theill September 26, 2008 5:12 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Jeannie (NOT alone anymore..) I read, with great sadness, your comment of September 23, 2008. I phoned the Corvallis, Oregon hotline, (CARDV) this evening and spoke with them about your situation. They would be happy to speak with you and help advise you in a safety plan. Their phone number is: 1-541-754-0110 There are programs for victims, such as yourself, to change your name and social security number for your safety and protection. There are stalking laws to protect you and advocates who can assist you. I have included a few numbers below of groups that would be able to network you to advocates in your area. Please let them know your needs, and share with them what your local domestic violence groups have done or not done for you, as you have been seeking safety. I honor your very survival and courage for writing your comment to I would be happy to network you, also, to advocates throughout the USA. You are welcome to email me at: Here are numbers to call. I hope you will reach out to them today. National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 24-Hour Access from all 50 states. National Sexual Assault Hotline 1.800.656.HOPE My prayers and thoughts are with you. I hope that you may find the help you need this very moment. Respectfully, Coral Anika Theill, (Please see my website for more info:

Dombrowski et al v. United States September 26, 2008 11:38 am (Pacific time)

NEW YORK – On May 11, (2007), just before Mother’s Day weekend, ten mothers, one victimized child, now an adult, and leading national and state organizations filed a complaint against the United States with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. The case claims that U.S. courts, by frequently awarding child custody to abusers and child molesters, has failed to protect the life, liberties, security, and other human rights of abused mothers and children. “For more than 30 years, U.S. judges have given custody or unsupervised visitation of children to abusers and molesters, putting the children directly at risk,” says Dianne Post, an international attorney who authored the petition. “These horrendous human rights violations have been brought to the attention of family court systems, and state and federal governments, to no avail. We turn now to international courts to protect the rights and safety of U.S. children.”..., “Mothers File International Complaint Against United States,” press release, May 11, 2007,

American Bar Association's Children' September 26, 2008 11:29 am (Pacific time)

In jurisdictions throughout the United States, courts have severed maternal contact with children based on expert testimony diagnosing mothers with a novel psychological syndrome called Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS) that purportedly results in the alienation of children from their fathers. Such cases have led to disturbing outcomes for women and children. A Maryland man shot and killed his ex-wife, blaming PAS. A Pennsylvania teenager hung himself after a court ordered him into PAS treatment. A North Carolina court incarcerated a teenager who refused to visit her father. A New Jersey court ordered an eight-year-old to visit his wife-battering father, ignoring the child’s fear. An Indiana court, based on the testimony of an expert who testified to this father’s fitness, granted sole custody to a father whose “emotional problems were so severe that he was totally disabled and unable to work” (despite the fact that this expert never met the father and based his testimony primarily upon notes made by another therapist who also never met the father). A New York court granted a father sole custody and suspended the mother’s contact with their two children despite that court’s recognition that the decision would cause “foreseeable emotional upset and possible trauma” to the children. In each instance, PAS played a central role despite the syndrome’s dubious scientific basis and lack of evidentiary legitimacy... Jennifer Hoult, JD, “The Evidentiary Admissibility of Parental Alienation Syndrome: Science, Law and Policy,” American Bar Association’s Children’s Legal Rights Journal, 26, no. 1 (2006), 1, http://www.

Courageous Kids Network September 26, 2008 11:28 am (Pacific time)

We, the Courageous Kids Network, are a growing group of young people, whose childhood was shattered by biased and inhumane court rulings, which forced us to live with our abusive parent, while restricting or sometimes completely eliminating contact with our loving and protective parent. Some of us, whose mothers tried to protect us from abuse, did not see our mothers for years, or were only allowed to see our mothers under oppressive supervised visitation orders. We were not allowed to hug our mothers, or talk about how we felt. Some of us were separated from siblings, grandparents and extended family. We lost our home, pets, toys, friends - our childhood. We lived in fear, depression, hopelessness and helplessness for years. Some of us ran away from our abusers. Some could not handle the trauma and committed suicide. We who survived, got older and stronger. Now we are telling the world how much we were hurt, first by our abusers and then by the court that refused to protect us. Some of us have turned 18, and are now "free,” although nightmares and painful memories will haunt us for many years, maybe forever. Some of us still have siblings in the clutches of our abusers. We are kids from all over the country who have been beaten, molested, raped, sodomized, mentally battered, isolated, terrorized, and shamed by our controlling, battering parents... Courageous Kids Network, “Fighting the Hidden American Disgrace of Court Abused Children,” http://

American Judges Foundation (AJF) September 26, 2008 11:27 am (Pacific time)

Studies show that batterers have been able to convince authorities that the victim is unfit or undeserving of sole custody in approximately 70% of challenged cases... American Judges Foundation, Domestic Violence and the Courtroom: Understanding the Problem, Knowing the Victim (Williamsburg, VA: American Judges Foundation, 1995), 5, http://aja.ncsc.dni. us/domviol/page5.html .

American Psychological Association P September 26, 2008 11:26 am (Pacific time)

Studies of custody disputes indicate that fathers who battered the mother are twice as likely to seek sole physical custody of their children than are nonviolent fathers, and they are more likely to dispute custody if there are sons involved... American Psychological Association, Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family (Washington DC: American Psychological Association, 1996),

American Bar Association Commission September 26, 2008 11:24 am (Pacific time)

Custody litigation frequently becomes a vehicle whereby batterers atttempt to extend or maintain their control and authority over the abused parents after separation... Deborah M. Goelman, Frederica L. Lehrman, and Roberta L. Valente, eds., The Impact of Domestic Violence on Your Legal Practice: A Lawyer’s Handbook (Washington DC: American Bar Association Commission on Domestic Violence, 1996),

National Organization for Women (NOW September 26, 2008 11:21 am (Pacific time)

There is a national crisis for women and their children in the family law courts of this country. Affirmed by experts and leaders in the women’s movement, the existence of this crisis is verified by women in every state who report injustice in their family law cases, especially battered mothers trying to protect their children from abusive fathers who aggressively litigate against them, using family court to stalk, harass, punish, and impoverish their former partners and children... National Organization for Women Foundation, “The Crisis in Family Law Courts,” http://www.

Earl Richards September 26, 2008 10:44 am (Pacific time)

Jeannie: You have to disappear into the Witness Protection Program and fast. Earl

American Bar Association Commission September 26, 2008 11:19 am (Pacific time)

Custody litigation frequently becomes a vehicle whereby batterers atttempt to extend or maintain their control and authority over the abused parents after separation... Deborah M. Goelman, Frederica L. Lehrman, and Roberta L. Valente, eds., The Impact of Domestic Violence on Your Legal Practice: A Lawyer’s Handbook (Washington DC: American Bar Association Commission on Domestic Violence, 1996),

National Coalition Against Domestic September 26, 2008 11:16 am (Pacific time)

In terms of victimization, intimate partner violence against men is overwhelmingly committed in same-sex relationships rather than in heterosexual relationships... National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, Male Victims of Violence (Denver, CO: National Coalition Against Domestic Violence),

101st United States Congress September 26, 2008 11:10 am (Pacific time)

Expressing the sense of the Congress that, for purposes of determining child custody, credible evidence of physical abuse of one's spouse should create a statutory presumption that it is detrimental to the child to be placed in the custody of the abusive spouse; Whereas State courts have often failed to recognize the detrimental effects of having as a custodial parent an individual who physically abuses his or her spouse, insofar as the courts do not hear or weigh evidence of domestic violence in child custody litigation; Whereas there is an alarming bias against battered spouses in contemporary child custody trends such as joint custody and mandatory mediation; Whereas joint custody guarantees the batterer continued access and control over the battered spouse's life through their children; Whereas joint custody forced upon hostile parents can create a dangerous psychological environment for a child; Whereas a batterer's violence toward an estranged spouse often escalates during or after a divorce, placing both the abused spouse and children at risk through shared custody arrangements and unsupervised visitation; Whereas physical abuse of a spouse is relevant to child abuse in child custody disputes; Whereas the effects of physical abuse of a spouse on children include actual and potential emotional and physical harm, the negative effects of exposure to an inappropriate role model, and the potential for future harm where contact with the batterer continues; Whereas children are emotionally traumatized by witnessing physical abuse of a parent; Whereas children often become targets of physical abuse themselves or are injured when they attempt to intervene on behalf of a parent; Whereas even children who do not directly witness spousal abuse are affected by the climate of violence in their homes and experience shock, fear, guilt, long lasting impairment of self-esteem, and impairment of developmental and socialization skills; Whereas research into the intergenerational aspects of domestic violence reveals that violent tendencies may be passed on from one generation to the next; Whereas witnessing an aggressive parent as a role model may communicate to children that violence is an acceptable tool for resolving marital conflict; and Whereas few States have recognized the interrelated nature of child custody and battering and have enacted legislation that allows or requires courts to consider evidence of physical abuse of a spouse in child custody cases: Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), SECTION 1. It is the sense of the Congress that, for purposes of determining child custody, credible evidence of physical abuse of a spouse should create a statutory presumption that it is detrimental to the child to be placed in the custody of the abusive spouse. SEC. 2. This resolution is not intended to encourage States to prohibit supervised visitation... Expressing the sense of the Congress that, for purposes of determining child custody, evidence of spousal abuse should create a statutory presumption that it is detrimental to the child to be placed in the custody of an abusive parent, H. Con. Res. 172 PCS, 101st Cong., 2nd sess., October 25, 1990,

National Council of Juvenile and Fam September 26, 2008 11:05 am (Pacific time)

Domestic violence puts millions of women and their families at risk each year and is one of the single greatest social ills impacting the nation... National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges, “Family Violence,” 2005,

World Health Organization (WHO) September 26, 2008 11:03 am (Pacific time)

Gender-based violence, or violence against women (VAW), is a major public health and human rights problem throughout the world. Violence against women has profound implications for health but is often ignored. WHO’s World Report on Violence and Health notes that “one of the most common forms of violence against women is that performed by a husband or male partner.” This type of violence is frequently invisible since it happens behind closed doors, and effectively, when legal systems and cultural norms do not treat (such) as a crime but rather as a “private” family matter, or a normal part of life... World Health Organization, “Gender-Based Violence,” 2008,

A Battered Woman September 26, 2008 11:00 am (Pacific time)

Jeannie, please call 1) the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 ( the National Clearinghouse for the Defense of Battered Women at 1-800-903-0111 Ext. 3 ( for advise regarding how you can enforce your protection order, how to obtain a new name and social security number as a stalking victim, and how to handle your court case.

Jeannie NOT alone anymore.. September 23, 2008 2:18 pm (Pacific time)

I did not lose my children to my abuser... I lost  my serenity, my freedom, my safety, my dignity.  My abuser threatened to kill me, cut me up and put me in a 4x4 box and bury me in the country where no one would ever find me. He raped me at knife point, and tortured me, threatening he would cut out my eyes and cut my throat. He did  this to me and kept repeating constantly "You are not in charge B****, I am!"  I was so scared I could not breathe. Eventually he took me to my house, where he worked on his plan, never leaving me alone for a minute.  He was in my bed, and I remembered there was a borrowed gun in the room.  I grabbed the gun and called 911. While on the 911 call I made him tell the dispatcher what he did to me at gunpoint. I shot the head board 3 times during this to make him tell her. On my last shot, he moved, and I accidentally shot him in the knee.

I went to jail. I got out on a bond and went to court, I got 6 months in jail and 10 yrs. probation deferred adjudication.

I  am disabled from a prior car wreck that took the lives of my 3 children.  I lost them and then this un-punished criminal took the rest of me. I survive on $637.00 SSI. a month and can not work due to my disabilities. I have $15,000.00 in fees and court costs, and also his doctor bills to pay now, and he is FREE to do this again.

I had a protective order at the time of this crime, and NOTHING happened to him!  I had a "supposed" court-appointed atty,  he plea bargained and this is what I got.  I had no priors.  I can not go back to court.  I did not know what to do.  I still  have 3 locks on all my doors, all my windows have blankets over them and are locked and nailed shut. I do not open my doors after dark and no one comes to my home after dark or without calling me first. I do not go anywhere alone, because I do not know where he is. He said he WILL KILL ME, and I believe him. I even went to a protective home and he still called me and texted me there.  I gave all this information to my atty.  but it did not help. The police spoke to him on my phone while he was threatening me in the police station and told him to leave me alone.  Nothing changed.  He stalks me, and harasses me, and it doesn't stop.  If there was a underground place... I WOULD BE THERE! I have counseling and church, but it's not enough.

He has it made it now, that he knows exactly where I am,  I am just like a sitting duck.  I went through the crisis center here, but they could not do much... Seems when a person is abused and the abused fights back in anyway, they become the abuser.   I did not know what I was doing when I used the gun,  I thought that it was my only way to make him tell someone what he did to me. I was wrong.

You again become the VICTIM!

Anonymous August 16, 2008 7:32 pm (Pacific time)

My grandchildren witnessed their father being repeatedly abused by their mother and testified in court about the violent acts saying "When mom punches my dad really hard it scares me." Judge Hart ignored the childrens testimony and gave custody to the mom. How wrong is this? Women are not the only victims of domestic violence. They are batterers just like some men. The only difference is men feel too ashamed to tell. Women have resources such as domestic violence shelters. Men have nothing. How biased is that? I really doubt if you will post this. It's all about making the man look like the abuser and not bringing attention to both women and men abusers.

Anonymous August 16, 2008 7:28 pm (Pacific time)

Judge Hart allows women to lie during court, present altered and falsified documents when ordered to submit documents. When evidence is presented that the woman lied and purposely altered the documents he says nothing to them. He lets woman lie and falsify documents and encourages it by ignoring proof. So go ahead and lie to him. He will do nothing.

Coral Anika Theill July 4, 2008 6:42 am (Pacific time)

July 4, 2008 "Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others." ---William Allen White I long to be emancipated from my abusive ex husband, Mr. Marty Warner and the Oregon judicial system that has fully supported him to this day. I want the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Charms June 16, 2008 5:53 pm (Pacific time)

Just a quick comment about Vic's observation reference the "cover picture". Sometimes....i.e., ALL THE TIME, you must "lead the horse to water". To say, a hideous hag photo would not draw eye focus. Also, I must say, for every battered woman, this MUST be an encouragement to survival with visual that you CAN continue to look DYNAMITE! PLUS....domestic battering is not ADVERTISED by the family, but rather hidden and in many guises. It would seem this also the message. So....Vic're most valuable, and thank you! -charms-

charms June 16, 2008 5:22 pm (Pacific time)

Oh my....and how best to say this, other all MY years of domestic court inflicted trauma fueled by a male of low-self esteem who can only feel secure when he's harming someone else, is....that.....THE WOMEN whom I've met in this PARALLEL circumstance...ARE it seems without exception, LOVELY and INTELLIGENT. And gee....worst of all, she can THINK for herself. Her only FLAW...having the poor luck to attract someone who is emotionally incomplete. So...gee...don't be angry with her because she's pretty! -charms- Written in haste and in thought after having skimmed the posts, as I was both amused and annoyed! Trust I've written in an understandable manner! ;-D

anonymous June 11, 2008 8:05 pm (Pacific time)

It would be great if the systems worked but they are broken what appears to be beyond repair.

A Battered Mother April 14, 2008 9:40 pm (Pacific time)

The re-victimization of battered women and children in this country by the family court system rises to the level of the need for an underground railroad.

A Battered Mother in California Who April 12, 2008 2:35 pm (Pacific time)

Everyday I wake up in a nightmare in which I am bound and gagged and prevented from protecting my beloved child from his/her abusive father by the family court system whose job it is to ensure his/her "best interests."

A Battered Mother in California Who April 12, 2008 2:32 pm (Pacific time)

If you doubt Ms. Theill's story, I ask that you please consider the American Bar Association Commission on Domestic Violence's informational handout "10 Myths About Custody and Domestic Violence and How to Counter Them (2006)" available at To quote only two: "MYTH 5: ABUSIVE FATHERS DON'T GET CUSTODY. 'Abusive parents are more likely to seek sole custody than nonviolent ones...' American Psychological Association, Violence and the Family: Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family. '...and they are successful about 70% of the time.' American Judges Foundation, Domestic Violence and the Courthouse: Understanding the Problem, Knowing the Victim." "MYTH 6: FIT MOTHERS DON'T LOSE CUSTODY. 'Mothers who are victims of domestic violence are often depressed and suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and as a result, can present poorly in court and to best-interest attorneys and/or custody evaluators.' J. M. Golding, Intimate Partner Violence as a Risk Factor for Mental Disorders: A Meta-Analysis, 14 Journal of Family Violence 99-132."

Anonymous April 10, 2008 8:46 pm (Pacific time)

Please continue to speak up. Even though some people say vile things, don't give up, they obviously have not been in similar situations and ignorance makes them speak against you. Many that have been in the midst of this same struggle are grateful to have you speaking out. It is a sad for our country that justice can't be found.

Melodie February 25, 2008 9:19 pm (Pacific time)

Please keep up the good work Coral. I don't know if either of us will ever see any justice in Polk County Oregon but your continued fighting is an inspiration.

fed up in Oregon December 20, 2007 1:01 pm (Pacific time)

I have been reading parts of Coral's book today. I believe it will help people. I think it also might open the eyes of the people that don't realize what goes on within the legal system. I didn't find anything to suggest that Coral is grandstanding or that she is playing the poor me routine. Maybe it is because the people stating this have never been in an abusive situation. Lucky for you. Abusers are very good at manipulation not only of their victims but all those around them. The legal system then victimizes you again when they turn a deaf ear or by non action. I begged the legal system in Polk County for help repeatedly. It is no fun living in fear. Coral has a right to have her ex husband go to trial for the crimes he committed against her. According to Oregon and the U.S. Constitution the law is meant to protect us. If the people that are put in charge of that by our tax dollars will not protect us and help us when we ask - what use are they. It appears that the DA's involved protected her ex from the law. That is what my experience was also - the criminal was protected from any prosecution. Is that the kind of legal system we want is one that protects criminals and victimizes the victim more? That is what is happening.

Anonymous December 19, 2007 7:56 pm (Pacific time)

"Are you really sure Oregon is part of the U.S.? I don't really think they are and should put warnings on the signs entering the state - Beware come on vacation leave on probation - Or come to Oregon and we will steal your children and give them to criminals." I must say that Coral is definetly a strong woman and I for one pray that she somehow ends up with her children. Oregon has some serious problems within the legal system. Coral is just one of many that is in this same situation. Another woman is in a very similar situation. Her children were given to her ex although he had several drug dealing charges, assault, and much worse. He has custody of all the kids and she can't even see her children. She did not have a criminal history. Another man in Polk County beat his child up and was dealing drugs, he kept his child in a house that was filthy and falling apart. Child Protective Services let him keep his child (DA Fisher dropped all the charges for him beating up the child) - Hmhh another criminal that keeps his children, is there a pattern here. Yet another family has someone put in a false accusation against them that isn't found to be true and they fight to get their child back of course they weren't criminals. Children services are not the only problem in Polk County. DA Fisher is a huge problem too. It is well known about Polk County all over Oregon and the deception that goes on here by people of power. Then you have the Governor that turns a blind eye and deaf ear to his people begging him to help. Does an Attorney General really exist or is that just a name on the door because he doesn't answer the cries of the people that elected him either. How sad that such a beautiful place can be so terribly run. You know we pay to be treated like this in taxes that pay the salaries of these individuals that are abusing their power and destroying peoples lives. Of course Oregon does have immunity so they can get away with it and there is no recourse against them. One saving grace is I read in the paper last week that there are people running against Fisher finally! Hallelujah!!!!! Now what about the rest of them? They always run uncontested so of course nothing ever changes. These people aren't in office because they are wanted, no one else runs against them.

Theresa December 17, 2007 7:32 pm (Pacific time)

Coral is an inspiration! I am so proud to call her my friend. Since I have know her, she has only been kind and comforting to the people around her. Her volunteer work with the USO speaks volumes of her character. I hope someday, she will be victorious over this injustice that was brought upon her.

Anonymous December 10, 2007 11:45 am (Pacific time)

I don't mean to disrespect, but there are always two sides of every story and so far we have only heard ONE. It would certainly easier to believe her story if it wasn't for the fact that every person that does not agree with her is in fact conspiring to damage and abuse her. Never cry wolf... FS Bsoton

vtaylor December 4, 2007 11:06 am (Pacific time)

Coral you have spoken for those of us that continue trying to get our words heard and trying to find those that can help us. The greatest pain is not what has been done to ourselves, rather it is what is done to our children. Abusers know this, that is why they suddenly take interest in the children once we are gone. The fact that the courts all over this country allows and continues this abuse is frightening. I too have seen it first hand. I too cry for my child and desperately try to find someone that can help me in the state where I'm from. I would love to meet you some time, perhaps many of us can band together and be heard once and for all. Women are people. We are not possessions. We do not live in a 3rd world country - so why are women treated like we do? I do hope for all of us who have had our children taken from us and placed with an abuser that the laws will change. SOON

Tracy December 4, 2007 9:57 am (Pacific time)

To Vic's above comments: She is NOT grandstanding nor is she using her case to expose herself more, but exposing the problems that many women are going through that Society is turning a blind eye towards. She is not bruised, beaten or disheveled on the outside anymore, she has in fact won against that abuse, and is "shining" in that fact. But, if we were able to look inside at the hurt and pain, and put a picture to that in itself, there you will see the hidden bruises and turmoil that she is continuing to live through, and Survive. It isn't surprising that when a woman comes out and shares her story, that she is put down and it is stated that she is doing it for herself, that she wants the limelight, I'm sure she'd rather have her children back and not have to go through this. Would you rather see pictures of her on the cover battered and bruised? I'm sure she is still in possession of pictures of that caliber. Would you rather see a picture of herself on the cover while living on the street? Or would you state that she was just trying to use Society's pity? Damn if she does, damn if she doesn't, but to Survivors, she is showing that she is Surviving, overcoming the abuse and the situation, and "Shining". Sadly, the focus has been taken from her children, from the atrocity of what has happened to her and her children, and the fact that another abuser is using and manipulating the court system to gain and keep custody of the children. Again, society MUST see the woman as part of the problem, mostly if she refuses to stay the perpetual victim. Once again, Society is blinded by the cover, and has yet to take in the meaning of the pages within. Vic, open your mind to what is going on here, which is much further then a cover can ever expose. You state you are still learning, but it seems that you are willing to forgo that and continue with Society's perceptions and make your own ruling before reading the pages. Before you speak, look at the situation, look within yourself..... Coral, keep shining bright! You have a strength that many do not posses, and in sharing your story, you have in fact shared the story of many. Know that you are supported, and that you have many Sisters standing not only behind you, but beside you...... I talk to many NCM's that have had their children taken by abusers via To hear the pain that they go through on a daily basis, to hear how they just cannot survive without fighting for their children and fight hard to get anyone to listen, I applaud Coral for what she has done, not just for herself and her children, but for those that are not in a position yet to speak out. For them, Coral is one of their Voices, and that in itself sends a strong message.

Claudine Dombrowski December 4, 2007 9:09 am (Pacific time)

Vic- Shine ‘bright’ - ;-) ************** I have this on Google alert now. I look forward to many more ‘follow’ up articles to this Tim, Coral, all commenter's here and many more to come. WTG-Salem Oregon ~! Simple ‘humanity’- In unity…. -Now THAT is a power greater than all.- Much love to all, Claudine Dombrowski –KS Kansas Mothers For Custodial Justice ******************** "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path; and leave a trail..[emerson]….."

Vic December 3, 2007 11:14 am (Pacific time)

Claudine..if you are referring to me as the one who "controlled" the dialogue...I have to say, was it not a good thing? I do not feel like I contrilled the fact, no one agreed with my initial perception. And I am humbled and am realizing that I am not the possessor of all wisdom (yet). I think that dialogue on subjects such as this..that often get swept under the carpet, is good. I am happy to have been the devil's advocate if it makes people (and myself) think.

Claudine Dombrowski December 3, 2007 3:18 am (Pacific time)

Do you all NOT see what you as a community just did, again- you allowed one- to Control the exactly intended and predicted reaction. -“The most violent element in society is ignorance.”- --Ellen Goldman Daily we are terrified, Daily we wonder if this will be our last day.. Survival to just’ inhale’ one more time… and exhale, is almost more than one could imagine.. There are many who have NOT survived, and it is not slowing down. It is pandemic through the nation. Bravo Corel and that is ‘shining’ through the dark… We live it, as there is simply no other way. No, I do not look like a victim either,[as long as I am not bleeding, broken and bruised from battering.] ‘ so sayeth a Lobbyist comments recently here in the land of OZ.. No, my daughter who ‘continues’ to be held hostage will be 13 in a week she does not look like she is raped daily either. But many die shining.. And those who do not are dead within.. as there is no light. We are breaking more than silence we are changing literally the world. Generations of ‘learned’ and encouraged as ‘societal- accepted’ norms- Victim to advocate, and intensely focused. Hi Tim and Coral,, how are you doing?? Will either of you be at the BMCC-V in January- yup it is that time again. Hope to see you there. Btw…it is: [you put .com] Much love to you all; will see you all soon- hopefully in more articles.. ehh Tim ? ‘hint -hint’ Keep up the great work, both of you and all others!! ;-) Claudine Dombrowski –KS Kansas Mothers For Custodial Justice

Jess Phillips, Jr. December 1, 2007 10:57 am (Pacific time)

Vic, you are right. Your response was way off. It is clear that you don't know Coral and that you are unfamiliar with this case. If you read Coral's articles and book you would know that she has suffered years of abuse at the hands of her ex-husband. But perhaps your most inappropriate comment was to call this "grand standing." What Coral has written in her book and her most recent articles are, to the best of my knowledge, TRUE! And if these allegations she makes are true, then how is that grand standing? Here is a lady who has been abused and raped and denied the right to see her children, and your concern seems to be what she's wearing and how she looks. Yes, your comments were way off. I'm willing to bet that not only have you never met Coral, but you probably did not read her articles, including the one that you commented on, and will likely never read her book, Bonshea. I urge you to read Corals articles; read her book. Then I think you will have a completely different take on this situation. Vic, a great injustice has taken place here and what Coral is doing is what I would hope your daughters would do in the same situation: Seek help from the media, the governor, the people. That's not grand standing, that's seeking justice.

Jimi S November 30, 2007 1:11 pm (Pacific time)

The point that I think needs to be addressed here above all else, is the fact that abuse and oppression will not stop until the "power" group of men start to each other accountable for their actions and beliefs about women. For the men reading this.. Take a count of how many times in one day (or one hour) that you make judgements on other people. How many of those were about women? If you have a female partner, what expectation do you place on her in regards to your happiness? The reason domestic violence keeps growing is because men get with other men and build support systems for being abusive. Its up to each of us men to stop enabling each other to be abusive. Its time to take action and stop robbing ourselves of having true loving relationships with those we claim to care about..

Mary November 30, 2007 9:23 am (Pacific time)

I understand how you may question her attitude now. IMHO,, think once you understand the road they have traveled then can explain their extreme energy in ensuring they are no longer a victim ever again.

Guess it can be explain in the form of PTSD and overcompensating that they are FREE Now" and No longer being told how worthless they are by the abuser and the abuser's friends and family.

My own mother endured a great deal of abuse at very young age by her brother and her mothers various boyfriends, thus she married abusive men as well. After she was free of the abusive relationship she was one the most men hating feminists that loved to debate the issue with anyone who would listen. She was and still is very vocal of her opinion no matter what the subject matter.

Maybe in Coral's situation she is stating she can now be proud of who she is. She no longer has to cower down and hide who she is. Possibly it’s a healing process to make up for the many lost years and the many ugly memories of how she was treated. It takes a lot of courage and guts to keep going. Many give in to depression, alcohol and drug abuse or even suicide. In a sense its to counter act what they abuser tried to get her to believe about herself. She wants to live as a winner now not a loser. JMO.

Vic November 29, 2007 9:12 pm (Pacific time)

OK...I have to believe that by the response, I must have been way off on this. I still do not understand why someone who is writing a book about domestic abuse and rape makes the cover look like a sleazy romance novel...I am not a chauvinist nor do I have any hostility towards women that I am aware of. I know the subject is serious...I still think the Glamorshots are in poor taste. It to me, makes the idea behind her book somewhat watered down. Like if I were to write a book about the evils of drugs with my pic on the cover with a joint in my mouth. Maybe that is revealing my sexist mindset...I will be considering that. I appreciate everyones comments .... still learning here.

Andrea November 29, 2007 8:16 pm (Pacific time)

Coral Theil is a courageous woman that chose to "rise from the ashes" rather than pity herself. She has set benchmarks for others who have been abused and is an inspiration. Poor Vic, it appears that he never got past LOOKING at Ms. Theil.

Susan November 29, 2007 7:10 pm (Pacific time)

I know Coral. I met her a couple of years ago when she was trying to sell candles to make money. And in regard to Vic’s comments and readers’ responses, I can say that they have all hit the nail on the head: Her looks are, in her case, her biggest problem. In person she is naturally quite stunning and healthy-looking, so yes, it is very hard to see her as a victim. As one reader implied, she doesn’t fit everyone’s image of an abuse victim, doesn’t appear to be cringing, begging, and poor. Yet she did many years of cringing and begging, from her childhood on through when Mr. Warner took “ownership” of her. (Most abusers are very clever about picking their victims. They hunt out the neglected.) So now that she has escaped from that life and wants to hold her head up, some would want to blame her for no longer acting or looking like a victim. Amazingly, she still has hope for a better life. Yet she was beaten, neglected, almost lost her life, did lose her kids, sustained damage that prevents her from working full time, and lives on very little income to this day. She has been blessed with a great deal of intelligence, natural beauty, and height, yet her seeming hale and hearty appearance is a curse in her situation because it keeps some people from wanting to help her. That and the fact that she doesn’t cringe anymore or try to downplay her looks. Yet she is still a victim because she still cannot see her children and is still being harassed legally by Mr. Warner with no money for a lawyer to fight him. But no, she doesn’t look like a victim. I can tell you for a fact that she has frequently run out of food money and that she buys her clothes at Goodwill. (Yes, I know she doesn’t look like it. Would that we all could manage that.) Yet, I’ve felt compelled to take food to her many times because I knew she was running out of it or already was out. Then she would try to “pay back” by baking something for me. By the way she never asked for anything. Once I lent her my car and left money in it with a note for her to keep it. I knew she only had $5 to her name, but she wouldn’t take the money. Please, Mr. Governor, help this woman out! You are her last chance for help. Please do something to put an end to this terrible injustice.

Christine Pahl, MS, LPC November 29, 2007 4:35 pm (Pacific time)

Trauma is a funny thing. People don't like to hear about it because they come face to face with man's capacity for evil and the lack of safety in the world.

I think people get the idea that Coral is too focused on her story because she is driven by it.

What people fail to understand is Coral's inability to re frame her experiences in a way that allows her to not focus on what happened to her and to begin some healing is born out of the incomprehensible nature of what happened to her--and if it could happen to her, it could happen to anyone--and people don't like feeling vulnerable.

How do you make sense out of losing 8 children? How do you make sense out of a childhood of constant emotional, physical and sexual abuse. She never had the chance to have a solid foundation of love, security, trust and safety in her life.

There is no security, comfort, relief, reframing, making meaning--all those things that need to happen to recover from trauma.

The need to tell people to "get over it" is born out of our own need to escape the reality of the evil that actually exists in this world. Most trauma writers talk about "blame the victim" mentality and we do that well in this culture.

In response to Vic who did not like Coral’s pictures and made sweeping assumptions about her based on them:

What does a trauma survivor look like? The truth of the matter is, sometimes they are hookers, sometimes they are addicts, sometimes they are morbidly obese, sometimes they are anorexic, sometimes they are talk show hosts, sometimes they are therapists, sometimes they are advocates who write books!!!!!!

Trauma means “wound”. Though some trauma victims are still wounded and bleeding, many are survivors though still badly scared.

Kind of makes me want to ask “What does a male chauvinist look like?”

---Christine Pahl, MC, LPC

Bruce November 29, 2007 4:31 pm (Pacific time)

Perhaps Vic is not as ignorant as he appears... perhaps he is really Marty trying to solicit others to join his camp in the intellectual wilderness?

Austin November 29, 2007 2:46 pm (Pacific time)

VIC, your feelings are understandable. At first glance, Coral does not seem like a typical abuse victim. Perhaps she is not. I give you the benefit of a doubt to assume that you are not sexist, but merely trying to make sense of this picture for your self. I'm sure your mental image of an abused woman is one of cringing and begging, which is clearly not where Coral is. The obvious question is, why doesn't Coral fit this motif? The obvious answer is that cringing and begging is unhealthy, and having pride in one's self is empowering. The other angle of this is that people fear and criticize when they have problems with themselves. I'm not trying to bring you down Vic, but try to be happier with your self.

Marie November 29, 2007 11:16 am (Pacific time)

Wondering Vic if this shoe were on your foot, would you not be making noise and waves or would you consider that glorifying your "victim" status? Wondering too if the holocaust survivors "enjoyed" that same status? As a survivor of domestic abuse, I see your attitude as a condoning one if you even think ANY victim "enjoys" being that.

Coral Anika Theill November 29, 2007 10:09 am (Pacific time)

Thank you Salem-News for your support and readers for taking the time to review my story. This is one of my favorite quotes. "OUR DEEPEST FEAR: Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, not our darkness that most frightens us. "We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. "We were born to manifest the Glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own Light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." - Nelson Mandela, 1994 Inaugural Speech For those who may be interested, you can read "The First Chapter" of BONSHEA at which will give you more details to further understand this article. My story at Salem-News will hopefully help raise awareness regarding many issues, i.e., judicial injustice, domestic violence, marital rape, child abuse, legal stalking, ritual and spiritual abuse, societal violence, etc. Life is a journey of becoming "aware, awake and conscious," and a classroom of learning unconditional love for ourselves, our Creator and our fellow man. Walk in Beauty, Coral Anika Theill "Thou shalt not be a victim. Thou shalt not be a perpetrator. Above all, thou shalt not be a bystander." ---Holocaust Museum

Jane November 29, 2007 9:32 am (Pacific time)

OMG!! how funny,,and the stero type lives on to evaluate a woman on how she looks.. so Vic condems her looking too good! It makes laugh, females are dammed if they do dammed if they dont. Ever think that by telling her story is helping herself heal, helping others, giving them a Voice!! and exposing a big flipping mess in Polk county that needs to be fixed!!?? just a thought.

Larry in Newport November 29, 2007 9:31 am (Pacific time)

Wow, that guy Vic has a seriously twisted sense of reality doesn't he? Ever heard of this thing called "chivalry" there old boy? You are probably another abuser, you would almost have to have a beef with women in general to even think those thoughts.

Tim King November 29, 2007 9:21 am (Pacific time)

OMG Vic, I have a hard time reading that, this lady is been through more than most people could ever imagine. She had all of her kids taken away, lives nearly homeless, part of the problem is that she doesn't look like crap, I'm surprised that you would make a statement against this woman who has been mowed over by a right wing religious case.

Jane November 29, 2007 9:08 am (Pacific time)

??? you dont get it at all. Her point is the 'woman is not right'. The stero type she is explianing with the EVIDENCE is woman are seen as not knowing what is best for them,, to listen to the man. And with that he was able to mentally brainwash her, and others as well, control the situation and all aspects of her life. The article lists IN "Great Detail" how he got away with it. So where in this did any one think The woman is always right? and the man is the bad guy.. ? if that was the case she wouldnt have a story to write.

Vic November 29, 2007 8:07 am (Pacific time)

I dont know about this...seems to me that Ms Theil is certainly enjoying her victim status..look at all her carefully posed she grandstanding or what? And why in the name of God would a woman who claims to be so screwed up spit out EIGHT kids??? I think this is a scam and an attempt at celebrity status. If I were in a serious battle to get custody of my kids, I wouldnt be sending out Glamourshot photos of myself. I think she is still screwed up and has some fantastic ego problems. It seems to be all about HER...poor Coral. I certainly do not condone domestic abuse, but I am not buying this dog and pony show. I know the "woman is always right---the man is always the bad guy" people are going to howl, but oh well.....

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