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Sep-20-2007 05:57printcommentsVideo

Has President Bush Protected Charles Schwab From the U.S. Justice System? (VIDEO)

An Oregon man who lived with a former girlfriend of Charles Schwab's, hints at a federal government cover up and big money scandal that reaches to the highest levels.

Financial mogul Charles R. Schwab
Financial mogul Charles R. Schwab

(SALEM, Ore.) - What should a national leader do if he suspects one of his country and political party's richest financial moguls is guilty of illegal federal crimes?

More specifically, what would the current President do if he knew a person like Charles R. Schwab was guilty of insider trading? His downfall could literally bring about the collapse of the stock market. Is our country honest? Do our federal agent's blinders come on when certain people worth a lot of money come into view?

Wayne Pierce says he has contacted many important political offices and individuals with his allegations against Charles Schwab, he says he has documented a number of Schwab's federal crimes, but the case has never received major interest from the FBI, the agency that investigates the type of allegations that Wayne Pierce brought forward.

In summary, Pierce says Charles Schwab hacked his computers, stole his emails, destroyed files, and spied on him. It stems from Pierce's involvement with a woman who had previously dated Charles Schwab. The video goes into great detail on these subjects.

Allegation of Conspiracy & Lying to the FBI

Pierce says Schwab intercepted his emails and shared them privately with Ms Kim Haynes, the woman both Pierce and Schwab had a relationship with. He says Haynes discussed Schwab’s illegal activities with him in person and through emails, all of which Pierce provided to the US Government.

Pierce believes that since the FBI first began investigating his allegations against Charles Schwab, both Schwab and Haynes have conspired to deceive the US Government, claiming they did not know one another.

"Indeed, Mr Schwab’s corporate attorneys wrote me twice and claimed the same thing. Because I had provided the FBI ample proof that these people do indeed know one another, prior to their ever talking with them, I question why they so easily accepted these false claims and discontinued their investigation. I believe this might be a deliberate cover-up by the US Government."

Emails Hacked and Framed for Attempted Murder?

Wayne Pierce says that in August of 2003, Schwab and his good friend, Keith Johnson of Fieldstone Homes in California, conspired to frame him for murder.

"They both told Ms Haynes that I was trying to kill him (Schwab) by placing bombs on his properties. Mr Schwab then told the FBI the same thing. As part of their conspiracy, Ms Haynes was also terrorized with with death threats over the phone. Something is obviously wrong here: If Mr Schwab did not know Ms Haynes, as he claimed to the FBI, how could he be telling her that I was trying to kill him? How was it that her boss was telling her the same thing? For not knowing one another, they were sure talking a lot."

It is important to note that the discovery of Mr Schwab’s so-called bombs was made the very week that Schwab had told friends, via email, that he would be visiting California, and specifically, the Pebble Beach/Carmel area, where the bombs were found.

"Mr Schwab was still into my computer and reading my emails — one year after I had reported his illegal activities to the Bush Administration and US Congressional leaders. Indeed, he felt he was above the law, perhaps for good reason."

On August 21st, 2003, the FBI questioned Pierce about Mr Schwab’s accusations.

"It was quite fortunate that I had canceled my travel plans and was not in California. Had Mr Schwab also been tapping my telephone, he would have known this. Just as I predicted with the FBI agents, these bombs turned out to be fakes."

While discussing the bombs found at the Schwab office and home in Carmel, Pierce says FBI Agent, John Ferreira told him that Mr Schwab and Ms Haynes had claimed they did not know one another. Mr Schwab also claimed he did not know who Pierce was.

"When I told Mr Ferreira that I could easily prove they did know one another, he told me that the FBI was going to talk with Mr Schwab and Ms Haynes again and if they were lying, they were going to jail. I doubt the FBI was allowed to follow through with this, for Mr Schwab and Ms Haynes are still not in jail."

Questionable Financial Dealings

Pierce's former girlfriend and Schwab had their own financial dealings, he says, and she was in Schwab's debt for $20 million he loaned her. That money was lost after a failed merger between two huge Silicon Valley groups, Micron and Hynix. Pierce says Schwab partially orchestrated the failed deal.

Schwab’s financial dealings with Haynes were questionable Pierce says, and he suspects that included insider trading, tax evasion, "and certainly financial coercion and blackmail. I believe the handling of his loan to her, and his control over her stock account with his company, improper."

Below is the video with's Tim King and Wayne Pierce of Oregon. The transcript is below the story


Interview transcript:

TimI'm here with Wayne Pierce and we're talking about what might likely end up being the biggest story of the year. Wayne, I'm going to ask you top sort of take this from the top and where you first met Miss Haynes and what got this whole thing with Charles Schwab started.

Wayne:Strangely enough, maybe not so strange nowadays, Kim and I met on the Internet. And we developed a relationship, an email relationship anyway, but didn't meet one another for some time because she lived up on Orcas Island and I'm down here, so we're quite a ways apart.

Tim: How long after you finally met Kim was it until you understood her history with Charles Schwab?

Wayne: Kim and I met one time in San Diego, I flew down to visit with her, this is after we had known each other for about six months. And while I was in San Diego visiting her is when she started telling me about her previous relationship with Charles Schwab, who she says she was engaged to and that's when it all started.

Tim: What was your thought on the financial mogul Charles Schwab before you met Kim, who was Charles Schwab to you?

Wayne: I've always known Charles as the guy who introduced the United States to low cost stock trading, he was the, back then charged the lowest fees for trading stock so that's the Charles I knew.

Tim: Was it shocking to you to come to understand that the woman you were becoming involved with had been involved with a you know, bit world class figure.

Wayne: Absolutely, I was just dumbfounded. It's the kind of thing that you almost can't believe, but yet Kim and I had known each other for so long, and cared for one another enough, that I had to believe her and it was truly an unbelievable story.

Tim: And just to get right to it, Kim was obviously guarded about her past to some degree with you and it took a while before she disclosed to you more of it?

Wayne: Over the months that I knew Kim I gradually knew more about her and her family. She comes from a wealthy family. What I found out rather early after I met Kim was that her mother's brother was one of the founders of Varian Associates in the Silicon Valley. Her father was the scientist or engineer who developed the products that started the Micron corporation. She was definitely among the people who might associate with Charles Schwab and these people.

Tim: So Wayne, let's move right to what this is all about. Obviously Martha Stewart and others have paid dearly for mistakes that were made involving insider trading. A lot of the Schwab story seems to stem from this deal with Miss Haynes, can you explain that?

Wayne: According to Miss Haynes, from where I get most of my information, Charles Schwab was involved with the attempted acquisition of Hynix by the Micron Corporation, he was managing that. As part of this, as part of this deal he loaned Miss Haynes 20 million dollars with which she would buy Micron stock, which put her in a position where she could have some power over the board of directors, she would have a say in what they were doing. Consequently, she was able to, well she in fact went with Charles on at least two occasions that I'm aware of, to his office in Manhattan where they met with the South Korean owners of Hynix to discuss this transition where they would take over their company.

Tim: And she was actually in attendance for that?

Wayne: Yes, she flew on his corporate jets out of Portland and was on both, at least two visits that I am aware of.

Tim: So it is fair to conclude that from what we know, from you know from Ms Haynes, that Charles Schwab was causing her to believe that he was going to do something that was going to secure her financial future?

Wayne: Absolutely, if they could have pulled this off, it would have combined two of the biggest electronic chip makers into one company and the stock would obviously take off.

Tim: But that's not what happened?

Wayne: That's not what happened because the South Korean bankers eventually rejected the plan, and I even read some time ago where Micron Corporation is attempting to sue them for backing out of the deal. I don't know how that turned out but that was in the news.

Tim: As you're going to learn in the next few minutes from Mr. Pierce, the list of crimes, or at least allegations of crime against Mr. Schwab is a very long list and there are people involved that may be surprising. And Wayne when we talk about this, you essentially built a case and took your findings to the FBI. And Wayne I wanted to add too that this is the moral duty it seems of any American to take a crime like this and report it. Can you explain how that wen when you took this allegation against Charles Schwab over the money with Ms Haynes to the FBI?

Wayne: Yes I did feel a duty to report what I thought was a very serious crime. I called the FBI and I spoke to FBI Agent John Ferrera and I started to discuss the multiple crimes that I thought Charles Schwab had committed, which includes the stalking, computer hacking and theft of email and the money issues. Ferrera immediately stopped me and asked if I lost any money in all of this that was happening and I said, ‘no I haven’t lost any money and he said he can’t become involved in any kind of complaints like mine unless somebody lost a hundred thousand dollars. That was his cut off and the end of the report, he could not be involved.

Tim: I know it is an interesting point that you must have reached then and we’re going to talk about the hacking and the computer interference which Mr. Pierce believes came from the Schwab group and you have reasons to believe that right down to the actual email being placed in your hand. But that wasn’t the only contact you had with the FBI over this?

Wayne: That’s right, I didn’t give up there and I contacted the Portland FBI office and I spoke to Agent Paul Mueller, and told him what ask going on and he did not give me the hundred thousand dollar rule and but seemed to be very interested. He asked that I forward him the email to sort of prove what was going on which I did, eventually I talked to him and he told me that he would like to talk to Kim Haynes because she was a big player here, she is the one who told me and I have her emails, so he wanted to talk to her. At that point he told me to have her call him. I called Kim and gave her his phone numbers and asked to call him. She said at that point that if he wanted to talk to her he could call her. Anyhow I exchanged their points of view across back and forth a couple of time and he was eventually going to get in touch with her, which was my understanding. One day I heard from him, I can’t remember if it was a phone call or an email, Agent Mueller told me he couldn’t really pursue the case because there was insufficient evidence, and strangely enough he said that if, he said he would only pursue the case if I provided him the emails that Charles Schwab had been stealing from me, when you report a stolen car to the police do they say, 'well if you show us the car we can pursue it.’ It was a very strange response.

Tim: And before we go too far, I think that one of the most poignant points of this whole story is the computer hacking, and the way that you kind of detected this was by your girlfriend knowing things that you couldn't account for?

Wayne: It even went back further back than that, when I first met Kim down in San Diego she talked about Charles Schwab Always knowing what she is doing, she complained about him having his detectives following her around, I think he convinced her of what he was doing because of detectives, and I immediately started suspecting computer hacking, I suspected he was reading her email and knew everything she was doing. But she told me 'he knows you're here in town' the day I arrived here, no, after she told me about him she started taking about him and then she told he he knew I was in town, etc. Kim and I later were living together here in Eugene and after a while she started asking me questions about certain people or certain things that I had to said to someone and acted very suspicious, like 'who is Lisa,' well I had previously known a Lisa who had contacted me, I hadn't seen for many years, she contacted me and said she worked for American Express investments, and she wanted to know if I was be interested in investing money in their company. Well, Kim picked that up in an email obviously one day and asked me, 'Wayne, who is Lisa?' Well Immediately knew then, somebody had seen the email obviously, I didn't tell her about Lisa, she did this in a couple of other instances where she mentions somebody's name and was very suspicious about me, so I pretty much knew that Charles was hacking my computer and feeding her my emails.

Tim: And then you had a file that you had been building on Schwab you mention to me earlier, and then that was just gone one day?

Wayne: I first reported Charles Schwab's illegal activities in August 2002, during that period I had written to George Bush, the FBI, the FCC and all these people. In August of 2003 I one day went into look at my files in my documents on my computer and I was looking up a letter that I had written Charles Schwab, one of many, and the file wouldn't open. I then tried other files in the same folder and none of them would open, they were all damaged. And I thought it might be a computer general hit of all my documents, but I tried to open the others and they opened fine, and the only files that were damaged, wouldn't open were the ones on Charles Schwab.

Tim: When you're dealing with this type of thing, it's clandestine, it is secret, but what ended up happening with the Carmel incident, and I'll be honest with you Wayne, that is what really brought me into this story, when I learned that part, they say karma works in strange ways, so the email interceptions are as far as you know, going on, can you tell us about the trip to Carmel that you didn't quite take?

Wayne: I was getting ready to take my yearly adventure down to California where I'm from and I was emailing friends to let them know I was coming and I gave them a specific date, when I was going to be there, a specific week, as we got near the time I phoned my friends and let them know I wasn't going down there. On August 19th 2003, the year after I am first reporting Schwab to every level of law enforcement, on August 19th, Kim Haynes called me on the phone and told me about bombs that had been found on the Schwab property. She said bother Charles and her boss Keith Johnson told her that they thought I placed bombs at his residence, which is really not his residence now, but it is going to be his retirement mansion in Pebble Beach, and there were bombs also found at the Carmel Charles Schwab office. Now first of all Charles Schwab lives in Atherton most of the time and works every day at his downtown San Fransisco office, so why the bombs in Carmel? There is only one reason for the bombs in Carmel, that is because he thought I was there. Kim was really upset, she really thought I might be trying to kill the guy, she said said she was getting phone called and her life was getting threats, I told her 'Kim this whole thing is a big hoax, the FBI will be knocking at my door shortly, they are trying to set me up simply because they thought I was going to go to California.' A couple of days later I wasn't here but my son told me there were two FBI agents knocking at my door looking for me, they left their cards, I told them I didn't want to talk to them here but I said I would come down to their office, which I did. The FBI said Charles Schwab told them he thought I was trying to kill him and the proof, he thought I was responsible fo these bombs, the reason Charles Schwab thought it was me the said, it that he gave them a letter I sent him six months before and said this letter from some guy that he doesn't know, that made him feel I was the one who was trying to kill him. What I told the FBI was that 'I really appreciated the chance to finally talk to them, they had never talked to me before. All this time I had provided them with emails and all kinds of documentation that supported my allegations against Charles and nobody calls me. He tried to frame me for murder and here they are, it was really weird. And the demeanor of the FBI agents was, I could really tell, they did not believe Charles for one minute. They went through the motions and they asked me if I could prove my whereabout was of the time that the bomb was found, I gave names of three different people here in Eugene and phone numbers, and said you can talk to these people they will tell you I was right here. Weeks later I talked to these people the FBI never even talked to them.

Tim: Which again underscores their lack of belief in the Schwab allegation against you at all and that had to make you feel good, I know that until this story you have not been able to get this out to the nation even though you have been trying, but every now and then corroboration crossed your door.

Wayne: Yes, I felt very good about it.

Tim: Another point that is really important deals with the Stock Exchange itself, Charles Schwab, probably the single biggest name when it comes to the stock exchange, however things have changed a little bit there, Wayne can you tell me about this?

Wayne: Yes, when I became concerned about Charles Schwab's, what I believed was Charles Schwab's illegal behavior and unethical behavior, I wrote a letter to the board of directors of the New York Stock Exchange and copied them on letters that I had sent to George Bush about Charles Schwab and basically asked if this is the kid of person they want to be members of their exchange. I might be purely coincidence but about two months later Charles Schwab sold his three seats on the New York Stock Exchange and moved his seats to the NASDAQ totally.

Tim: Could be coincidence but very interesting timing, so again to clarify you wrote letters to Charles Schwab, you wrote letters to his wife, you wrote letters to all the members of the New York Stock Exchange.

Wayne: Yes I've written to all those people. In the letters to the NYSE I copied each person on the board, yes. I just went down the list of things I knew about Charles Schwab. In the letters they received I talked about the fact that he was hacking into my computer, into Ms. Haynes' computer, I talked about the questionable financial arrangements he had with her regarding the Micron-Hynix merger or acquisition, I talked to them about his ongoing harassment which is not that big of a deal to them they're more interested in the legal aspects, that's basically what I talked to them about.

Tim: So then, and when you gave me copies of your files there was not one, but two copies of letters from Schwab's attorneys, and it struck me as odd, they are telling you that you know, your allegations aren't true, but why, if you were making these allegations and they weren't true and you were sending them to the President and the FBI, then in my view there is no reason I can imagine why they wouldn't have waged some action against you, and you even encouraged that?

Wayne: The first letter I received from Schwab was interestingly after I wrote to George Bush, and he basically threatened me that if I wrote to George Bush and other people in government that they were going to sue me, well they reserved the right to sue me, which is interesting because if I have a problem with somebody who is doing illegal activities that involve me is that I am not supposed to report it to anybody. How I responded was I wrote back to his attorneys and told them to please sue me because there is nothing I would rather do than see Charles Schwab in court. I never heard from that attorney again. About a year later, I received another letter from their attorney, a more senior attorney in Charles Schwab's corporation, in which they basically were trying to bully me, they quoted laws from the Oregon Statues, they advised me of all of these laws I was breaking, and they accused me of threatening him, and again I responded and told them if you want to sue me go ahead. The last time I wrote to Charles Schwab, and his wife Helen and again reviewed by allegations against him, and again beseeched him to stop harassing and stalking Kim Haynes and just get out of her life, I ended that letter by advising them that they could save a lot of attorney time and energy and just don't bother to write any more letters trying to bully me, because I will not be bullied

Tim: Now that national media is finally paying attention to this story it looks like there could be stormy waters ahead for Charles Schwab and other Americans financiers who may or may not be involved in activity that will now be the focus of FBI investigations after all, at least that's what Wayne and I would conclude at this point after all the work that Wayne has done on this. Stay tuned to for more upcoming segments on this, at least on the published side.

I'm Tim King for

Here is an earlier report on the allegations against Charles Schwab's by's Tim King: Slippery Slopes for Financial Mogul Charles Schwab

Tim King is a former U.S. Marine with almost twenty years experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist and reporter. Today, in addition to his role as a war correspondent in Afghanistan where he spent the winter of 2006/07, this Los Angeles native serves as's Executive News Editor. is the nation's only truly independent high traffic news Website, affiliated only with Google News. You can send Tim an email at this address:

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Scab December 23, 2007 9:51 am (Pacific time)

Dear Tim and Bonnie, Thank you for this article. It is about time that people see how the world is really run. The latest documentary on the "Bilderberg" is called "End Game" by Alex Jones. It was made in 2007. You should be able to Google it and see it on your computer. If not, order it from your local library and they will get it for you. My library obtained it easily and within a week or two.

Scab December 23, 2007 9:04 am (Pacific time)

Charles Schwab has attended at least one meeting of the Global Elite "The Bilderberg". Google it. See how about 120 people rule the planet. While the mainstream media focuses on political parties, the real rulers are part of this international crime syndicate .....even Queen can dress her up but she is still a crime boss. Let the Ladies be fooled by her style and manner. Most men do not fall for that crap.

BS Detector October 10, 2007 5:59 pm (Pacific time)

Just a couple of points here to point out: #1) I've seen two stories on this topic from Tim King, but he spells Ms Haines name differently in both. Which is it? Haynes or Haines? #2) Could it be that she lied to Mr. Pierce and never really knew Chuck Schwab? Or maybe it was someone else with the same name or posing as him. #3) Could it be that Mr. Pierce is lying himself. As I read this, either he sounds like a conspiracy theorist or maybe it is the pathetic writing of Mr King. #4) If Micron was buying this South Korean company, WHY WOULD SCHWAB LOAN HAINES $20 MILLION TO BUY MICRON? SHOULDN'T IT BE USED TO BUY THE SOUTH KOREAN COMPANY? LAST TIME I CHECKED, YOU WOULD WANT TO BE THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY BEING ACQUIRED, NOT THE ACQUIRER. AND $20 MILLION IN MICRON IS NOT GOING TO GET HER A SEAT ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS. #5) Schwab's net worth is in the Billions. Doesn't this whole thing seem like pocket change?

sfwebguy October 4, 2007 12:45 pm (Pacific time)

Kim Haines, or Kim Haynes? If we can't even trust that names were fact-checked, how can we trust any corroboration of other accusations?

Editor: You know what? We are a small group with a really loud booming voice because we have years of journalistic background and experience, but we do not have the support staff to always catch the spelling errors, hopefully that will change over the coming months. We work hard bringing these stories forward. We may smoke the NY Times and CNN on stories every week, but that's because we all do ten times more than any one person should have to do. So we apologize for having spelled the name wrong, but please let the story stand for itself,

Zapper September 24, 2007 10:59 am (Pacific time)

Henry, I think you should have been a preacher rather than a journalist. Your lecturing about qualifications for leaving a personal opinion are boring and a great turn-off. You should read some of the great discussions going on with other news outlets where people are allowed to comment without constant demands that they send in a copy of their credentials in order to peak. Are you sure you believe in this "free speech" you're always talking about?

Henry Ruark September 24, 2007 6:35 am (Pacific time)

To all: Dialog is always great place to learn, when honestly used by participants. But reduced to only personal obloquy it wastes time, tries patience, and creates further frustration from all involved. SO bring facts, provide full access to authoritative other analysis by experts, share yr own rational, reasonable and responsible insights. I.e., inform self first, for sharing here with those who may have something more to add from other sources you didn't find. Internet makes it easy. "See with own eyes" and then share is helpful approach and also basic principle for all honest "journalism" in any channel. But avoid trap here of any simple personal feeling as if factual addition for all. (I plead guilty, too; but that's reason for this one.) I note that not one added reference or other authentic information came from some of our recent participants --only personal feelings and small or larger irritations. Thus major trends were lost or obscured, when story here pointed most directly right to them, via relevant patterns. Growing violence used for political purposes; return to fascism HERE !; bloody waste of U.S. resources; worst-ever national deficits; rapid,total destruction of "American Dream for all", Constitutionally protected: That's the unavoidable surround-and-frame for Tim's excellent opening report re Bush treatment of Schwab. We deserve better, so let's work at it...

Henry Ruark September 23, 2007 6:24 pm (Pacific time)

Z. et al: Take your choice below, whichever fits your current comprehension after our ongoing dialog: "Most Americans aren't the sort of citizens the Founding Fathers expected; they are contented serfs. Far from being active critics of government, they assume that its might makes it right." : Joseph Sobran (1946- ) Columnist = "A State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands -- even for beneficial purposes -- will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished.": John Stuart Mill - (1806-1873) English philosopher and economist = "I never could believe that Providence had sent a few men into the world, ready booted and spurred to ride, and millions ready saddled and bridled to be ridden." Richard Rumbold - (?-1626) British Colonel - Source: His final words on the scaffold before he was hanged in 1685. A friendly adios to all, and good night...

Henry Ruark September 23, 2007 6:17 pm (Pacific time)

Z: Really very humble guy, Z. Just had very "checkered" career, including some intense academics, then met many fine persons, in rugged work at some solid institutions; and corporations; and then on own, learned a bit here and there.. All I ask is facts from some one with right to speak, built on training and experience, then demonstrated in actual work with real people. Put yrs on line and we know who --and what--you are, too. Feeling, no matter how intense it may be, must --in a rational society with some few still-reasonable people-- give way to democratic dialog. Founders knew importance of that, which is where First Amendment came from --and WHY it became "the First" from Federalist Papers philosophy right on to its creation. SO let's get on with that, you bring yr facts-and-people and I'll bring mine. ID-self to editor for more, anytime. I'm outta here,over-due as small courtesy to others, since you can surely folo to editor if you feel motivated. OR will we now find several others lined up and ready ?? OR perhaps still more very personal references ??

Zapper September 23, 2007 5:13 pm (Pacific time)

Henry R: You place yourself upon a very high pedistal indeed. A real authority on these things. Do you really believe that everyone who disagrees with you lacks qualifications? If Bush can be president, who needs qualifications for this mundane stuff. This attitude isn't good if you want to encourage people to comment on Salem News stories. I think you are bit over the edge and should try to back off and relax and encourage people to express themselves without accusing them of being stupid. I doubt that Bush is trying to have you tasered so quit worrying. If he does, just remember that it's better than being beat senseless with a billy club. What's your opinion about how Charles Schwab committing all these crimes but is not in jail? Maybe a few taser zaps would help change his attitude.

Henry Ruark September 23, 2007 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

L. and Z.: Forgot to repeat open deal for anyone here wishing to dissent from Op Ed = bring hatful of facts from others more authoritative than self, and we can continue dialog. Always have Desktop-full of URLs to solid sources, for yr own careful consideration, and THEN-only, cogitation for commensurate change in both understandings and attitudes.

Henry Ruark September 23, 2007 12:02 pm (Pacific time)

Zapper: Perhaps now we've illuminated, at least for some, the close connection in pattern and basic causation which connects the Bush-Schwab story with ongoing other Bush predations, on everything up to and including the Constitution -from which, come to think again, comes the First Amendment attacked, intentionally or not, by same attacks on this open channel, in which we demonstrate belief every time we URL a source, for your own "evaluation". IF we intended to persuade-only OR to resent and punish dissent here, we would never bother to do that latter action. SO take off yr inbuilt blinders and allow cogitation to commence...ain't really painful, once you allow it to happen.

Henry Ruark September 23, 2007 6:33 am (Pacific time)

L and Z.: Hesitated to point out that your request for Op Ed on the overwhelming "taser syndrome" now detected by many others was in essence the reason for my documentation via Parry, surely a better informed free press advocate than I can be, at 89 and restricted to home in Bend ? You pays your money and then picks your channel...and some now are paid to do so and then attack as several national press reports have already established, including four top Bush-serfs in a key national agency, repeating same "spin Letters" to a whole group of national dailies. Yr colleague was invited four times to "privatized" (!) dialog, refused; then resorted to calling in his own "extra troops"...all part of same hard pattern demonstrated by this student "suppression"; and perhaps right here in Oregon forests soon (!) --which is entirely relevant to Schwab story itself, if you stop to think a bit...while we are still free to do so.

Zapper September 22, 2007 11:00 pm (Pacific time)

The big man did carry him out while he kicked and waved his arms the whole way. However, he certainly did not subdue him. The guy fighting the cops the whole time. He was told he was under arrest and told to lay on the floor to be cuffed, but he resisted and was clearly fighting with the cops. When he refused to be cuffed, he got zapped. Arresting trouble makers is very common and this guy is just lucky he only got the taser. In the old days he would get a few blows with the billy club and perhaps a few kicks in the ribs. He was very abusive to the young women who first tried to usher him out. Anyway, as someone asked, what does all this have to do with Charles Schwab's illegal activities?

Henry Ruark September 22, 2007 7:08 pm (Pacific time)

L.and Z.: Can only hope you do not cross grumpy ranger in our peaceful forest, if he has taser ! 700 bought with yr tax dollars for Forest Service ?! Point is over-use for now fully apparent social control, with student used as example. Fear communicated thus helps get word out: Do NOT dissent ! Part of ongoing Bush pattern as growing trend, per sources cited. Admired huge cop carrying student easily; no real need to do more,he had him subdued. Rest was sharing to make point, which stands. Did you check out sources ? "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." --Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Lefty September 22, 2007 4:53 pm (Pacific time)

Henry: How can you maintain a place for free speech if you debate and put down those who make comments you disagree with? And why the fixation on tasers? You get zapped when you were a kid? What does this discussion have to do with this story? If you want to voice your opinions about tasers, why not do an OP Ed on them for Salem-News?

Zapper September 22, 2007 1:27 pm (Pacific time)

Tasers: I think I am beginning to get the point. If a suspect resists arrest and is punching the cops, they should use restraint and not hit with billy clubs, punch with fists, kick with feet, use their knees, or zap with tasers. And they should not gang up and overpower him by grabbing his arms and legs. After all, we don't want to interfere with suspect's freedoms. I'm not sure what this has to do with Bush's apparent protection of his buddy, but tasers are the latest hot subject.

Henry Ruark September 22, 2007 11:11 am (Pacific time)

To all: Re suppression" via Taser, as method of social control now being expanded nationally, check this one out: Item below featured in major business website (CNN): United States Forest Service Purchases 700 TASER X26 Electronic Control Devices Prime Newswire Federal Agencies Continue to Show Growth Opportunities September 19, 2007: 07:30 AM EST SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Sept. 19, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- TASER International, Inc. (Nasdaq:TASR), a market leader in advanced electronic control devices, today announced that it received an order from the United States Forest Service for 700 TASER(r) X26 electronic control devices and related accessories. "We are excited about this new additional federal agency purchasing TASER technology to protect life," said Tom Smith, Chairman and Founder of TASER international. "Traditionally, we have focused law enforcement sales at the local and state level, but we are now seeing acceptance of TASER technology at various federal law enforcement agencies." At issue here is use of such methods too-rapidly re any dissenter, as noted by many commentators on Internet, some of whom have been sourced here for YOU to know and understand trend denying YOUR liberties. Nobody wishes to deny any ranger proper equipment, but are TASERS now so regarded ? Be careful out there in our once-peaceful U.S. forests !!

Henry Ruark September 21, 2007 7:19 pm (Pacific time)

To all: This simply to note no further request from C-Man to share his factual information, if any, in further dialog on his expressed concerns. For record here, we post "see with own eyes" and other references to permit YOUR own examination of sources-used here, and stand ready for further honest dialog on any point you wish to raise. How much more can we do to allow YOU to participate in formation of honest, open, and democratic dialog, to aid us all to reach precisely that kind of decision on crucial issues ? There is no thought here of "know-it-all"; simply honest and open sharing of source and resulting analysis, for YOUR thoughtful consideration, too. ID by editor is necessary to protect emailer for both of us, otherwise subject to some abuse, as experience proves.

Henry Ruark September 21, 2007 2:30 pm (Pacific time)

C-Man: For third time, stop wasting space, time, attention here. If you wish dialog with me, welcome: simply ID self with editor. To do otherwise is social,time, attention faux pas after this one.

cave man September 21, 2007 1:59 pm (Pacific time)

Henry: Are you just going to keep insisting that everyone agree with you? Why not talk about Charles Schwab and his buddy George?

Henry Ruark September 21, 2007 1:39 pm (Pacific time)

C-M et al: For solid statement re real meanings of suppression at Kerry session, see Parry, famed investigative reporter, at: www.consortium

Henry Ruark September 21, 2007 12:13 pm (Pacific time)

C-Man: You were invited to continue dialog off-line. Since YOU chose NOT to do so, why should I silence main points in rebuttal ? I repeat: ID self to editor, and I will continue with solid facts from others more informed than either of us... Now that point of your withdrawal in face of facts is firmly established, I see no need for further rebuttal.

Lefty September 21, 2007 8:44 am (Pacific time)

I find it amazing that these allegations against Charles Schwab aren't being covered by the major news outlets. The US Government has amazing controls over the media. Or is it their fear of Mr. Scwab and his billions of dollars?

Cave Man September 21, 2007 7:46 am (Pacific time)

HR: You are engaging in philosophical lecturing and debating, which distracts from a discussion about the Charles Schwab story.

Henry Ruark September 21, 2007 7:17 am (Pacific time)

C-Man: Poor cognomen, sir, if you choose to leave rather than dialog, here or privately. Re "far out", I offer PDF on all-such, from persons far more auhoritative on special areas than I am. That's what true "opinion" is, based on publicly-recorded fact rather than simple and very personal feeling. "Publicly-recorded" thus allows "see with own eyes", also democratic protocol. Which is why dialog is so badly needed now, since our democracy thrives on true and solid opinion, properly tested and built on solid factual foundation --which discussants can find, check, test, and then decide issue on factual base, rather than changing tides of "political correctness" --to our sorrow !

Cave Man September 20, 2007 8:31 pm (Pacific time)

HR: And you sir have your rights. Seeing this as fascism is getting pretty far out there. I think I'll leave now.

Henry Ruark September 20, 2007 7:10 pm (Pacific time)

C-M: You have full right here to speak, and he had that right there, too. Don't dispute his disruption but way in which it was ended, which is suppression no matter how described. Security strongman had just picked him up, could have carried him on out. But taser use demonstrated consequences for any other protester, so was used...common situation now, and authoritatives see it as fascism symptom. ID self to editor and will send several PFD-documenting items. We had our shot here already...

Cave Man September 20, 2007 5:05 pm (Pacific time)

HR: Suppression of demontration? We're getting off course, but did not see suppression of demonstration. What I saw was a loudmouth obviously promoting Palast's latest book. He totally ignored the rules of conduct, he was very rude, and he refused to take direction from those in charge. Rather than losing his freedom of speech, he interfered with everyone else's freedom of speech, including a US Senator. What's with all the yelling for help and fighting with those trying to usher him out? He then fought with them to keep from being arrested. He totally disrupted the meeting and upset everyone. That girl should have zapped him twice.

Henry Ruark September 20, 2007 3:42 pm (Pacific time)

C/M: Tasering got full attention because it involved public and personalized pain for student, with some viewers seeing him as "victim" and others as "radical" deserving full-shot. BUT few felt real threat: "security" suppressing person seeking 1st Amendment right. That's solid symptom for our rapid descent into fascism, as early-days in Germany and in Italy demonstrated so strongly "not so long ago". Most depressing was audience reaction, with few DOING anything, even via voicing anger and disgust for strong demonstration of suppression.

Cave Man September 20, 2007 2:21 pm (Pacific time)

Tim King has provided a tremendous story about how Bush has protected his buddy Charles Schwab. One would think this story would rattle the foundations, but Bush Administration is so arrogant and the major news outlets are so controlled that it almost goes unnoticed. And then there is that fact that because Americans have been so bombarded with stories about corruption that they hardly notice. It's interesting how the Tasering of the FL student for resisting arrest will get much more attention than this story that has profound affects on the very survival of our country.

Henry Ruark September 20, 2007 1:31 pm (Pacific time)

dfp: Understand yr Bush-generated unsureness re terminology of crimes including his...but here yrs is hair-splitting on extremely serious matters running to many simplified statements due to rigid space/time requirements. Hardly adds to understanding here of issue-covered, which is what dialog s'posed to do. do...

dfpeer September 20, 2007 11:40 am (Pacific time)

" . . . guilty of illegal federal crimes," Are there any legal federal crimes? Illegal federal acts that aren't crimes?

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