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Apr-23-2012 08:40TweetFollow @OregonNews Vietnam's Helicopter Valley: Graveyard of Marine CH-46'sFeature Report by Tim King Salem-News.comFive Marine helicopters downed in 'Operation Hastings' were an unforgettable loss.
(SALEM) - In Vietnam, a particular place known as 'Helicopter Valley', will always be synonymous with loss and sacrifice of Marines who fill some of the riskiest occupations ever imagined. It is a place of skeletal remains, where the wreckage of five Marine CH-46 'Sea Knight' helicopters carrying the 3rd Battalion 4th Marines (3/4), who had lifted off the ground at Dong Ha, crashed down in a close proximity in Vietnam's Song Ngan Valley in 1966. Lieutenant General Summer Vale, battalion commander, remembers the grisly sight of several panicked Marines being sliced to death "by the helicopter blades as they were getting out of the helicopters"[1]. It was a tragic event that claimed many lives and it was a reminder of the intense challenges facing the US military as it became increasingly engaged in this SE Asia war. In A Chronology Of Marine Helicopters In Vietnam 1962-1975, USMC Helicopter Association writes of Operation Hastings:
It began when two of the birds in a third wave of helicopters delivering combat Marines, had their rear blades contact while offloading their Marines on uneven ground. Not expecting the tangling pair of doomed aircraft, a third CH-46 veered too close to trees in this thick jungle area; its blades caught and it crashed. Shortly after that, a fourth similar CH-46 was downed by sniper fire. The full caption for the photo of the stricken aircraft above, courtesy of usmcpress.com, describes the loss of one of the fifth aircraft that day:
Marines flying the CH-46 helicopter in combat scenarios, are among of the boldest and most precise pilots and aviation crews in existence. I speak from experience when I say that catching a flight with these Marines in even semi-hairy situations in Iraq, can be one of the most hair-raising things most journalists will ever do. Crossing Paths with the CH-46I came to know these somewhat awkward but mostly awesome aircraft as a young Marine in Southern California, back in the early 80's, stationed at Marine Corps Air Station Tustin (LTA) which used to be the Marines' helicopter base in the area for the birds with wheels. They kept the skid types; UH-1 Hueys and AH-1 Cobras, at Camp Pendleton. What I find personal about this story, is that I worked directly with one of the squadrons that made those unscheduled sacrifices that day: HMMT-164. The other squadron that paid dues that day was HMM-265; both were with Marine Aircraft Group-16 (MAG-16). The 'H' incidentally, represents helicopter, the other letters represent 'Marine Medium' and the 'T' which was later added to 164, stands for 'Transport'. HMM-164 was sent to Santa Ana, California, the Tustin Marine Corps Air Station, in 1969, after three long years in Vietnam. Many of the pilots and crews, were veterans of the Vietnam War, and some were likely flying the day carnage came to Helicopter Valley. We were told the same went for many of the aircraft; that many had been in Vietnam, however the model of CH-46 being flown in 1966 was replaced long ago, and the old versions were never brought back to the United States. If CH-46's at Tustin were indeed Vietnam War vets, they were the more recent versions. Some view the CH-46 and a death trap as it carries a great deal of fuel and can turn into an incinerator box very quickly for the crew with a serious malfunction, or as happens too often in war, from a rocket or small arms fire. In the two photos at the top of the story, of the 5th CH-46 lost that day, 13 Marines died. The Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association posted the following information on flyarmy.org in an article titled: 'how 'Helicopter Valley' got its name':
The 24 CH-46As were divided into six divisions of four aircraft each since LZ Crow appeared large enough to accommodate four aircraft landing together. Each CH-46 carried 14 troops plus a crew of four. Since numerous automatic weapon positions were located to the northeast, the final approach heading was generally southeast, which caused the terrain to slope downhill to the zone. There was a tailwind of about 5 knots. The first two divisions landed in Crow without incident. HMM-265's EP-155, in the third division, overshot the landing point and hit a tree line, causing strike damage plus minor injuries to the crew and passengers. It came to rest to the right, outside and the zone and was smoking. HMM-164's YT-15, flown by MAJ Tom Reap, was the fifth division leader. The second ship in the fifth division was HMM-164's YT-18, flown by CPT W.J. Sellers. HMM-265's EP-160, flown by CPT R.O. Harper, was the third ship and CPT L. Farrell in EP-174 was the last ship in the fifth division which approached the zone in a free-trail formation.
In the report of aircraft mishap, MAJ Reap stated he believed he was slightly high and fast on final. Rather than flare and place his wingman in an awkward position, he picked a clear area about 75 feet east of the LZ. He came to a hover and the crew helped him avoid a small ridge already occupied by Marines. He started losing rotor RPM as he pulled power to move over the ridge. The CH-46 dropped the last 8-10 feet to the ground and landed hard. Sellers was about four rotor diameters behind Reap and a little higher. He flared to about 20 degrees nose up to get rid of this airspeed and moved abeam of the leader as he came to a high hover. Some trees near the stream, a stand of 20 foot bamboo, and troops already on the ground limited his touchdown choices. He started losing RPM in the hover and set down to the left of Reap. Both CH-46s were on uneven ground. YT-18 was only on the ground about four seconds before it meshed aft rotors with YT-15, which had already lowered its ramp and troops were leaving. Both aircraft began to shake and vibrate violently; then broke at the splice just forward of the aft pylon. The pylon dropped, injuring some men inside. YT-15's blades killed two Marines who had just left the aircraft. At 1815, while inserting a reaction company to guard the three CH-46s in LZ Crow, HMM-265's EP-171, flown by CPT T.C. McAllister with SGT R.R. Telfer as crew chief, was hit at 1,500 feet by 12.7mm fire. Photos taken from the ground show smoke coming from the cockpit windows and flames from the rear of the aircraft. When they tried landing on Crow, smoke filled the cockpit so no one could see. They overshot the LZ and crashed on the edge of the battalion's CP and 81 mortars. Thirteen Marines died and three were injured in this incident. Thereafter, the Marines referred to the Ngan River Valley as "Helicopter Valley."
The pictures of the flaming CH-46A at the top of this article, (one of the most famous images of the war) is the subject CH-46A after it caught fire and was trying to get to the ground. It was filled with 12 USMCR troops and its crew of four. Other crew members of the aircraft were Sgt Gary Alan Lucas, gunner (second and third degree burns-face and arms), Capt Thomas C. (TC) McAllister, pilot, and 1stLt George Richey Jr., copilot. A Personal NarrativeRonald Cutlers and Jim Reid who were members of Company B, 3rd Engineer Battalion that was attached to H&S/2/1, killed on EP-171.
A Comment on the Incident
The USMC Helicopter Association wrote about different aspects of the event. They related how on the next day, 16 Jul, a platoon from 1st Force Recon Company rappelled from a MAG-16 helicopter onto the summit of the Rockpile, a few miles away from Helicopter Valley, to establish an OP for the first time. NVA units were located in large caves throughout the adjacent Razorback, which made for much contact during the coming month. The operation would prove to be tragic and costly. Another excellent Website with information about the Marine crashes and Operation Hastings in the summer of 1966, is OperationHastings.com. Their pages include a great deal more about what happened and what resulted from this gutsy attempt to climb right into Charlie's back yard. They also feature gritty first-hand accounts from Marines who lived to tell the story. As much as this operation is about lost helicopters, it is also about the Marine Infantrymen who went into what turned out to be, in some cases, impossible odds against the North Vietnamese 324B Division. These were prepared, hardened fighters, all of whom knew the terrain better than the Marines flown in and dropped off by the birds. On the worst day, 24 July 1966, 18 Marines from 3/5 India Company were lost, with one officer among them. Mission of the CH-46The Marines are still flying this aircraft after so many years, and they will be around for a bit longer. The real replacement for this aging 'Vertol' as they are nicknamed, is the OV-23 Osprey, a combination between a standard helicopter and a fixed wing plane, it has two tilt rotors and I was fortunate to catch a ride in one of these when I was covering the Iraq war also, which was an interesting experience to say the least. They are super fast and very efficient for the Marines. However the CH-46 is the staple, something that hasn't changed too much, for a long long time. According to Wikipedia, the United States Marine Corps CH-46E, also referred to as the "Phrog", is still regularly flown by the Marine Corps, its longevity as a reliable airframe has led to such mantras as "phrogs phorever" and "never trust a helicopter under 30". CH-46E Sea Knights were used by the Marines in the 2003 invasion of Iraq. I observed the aircraft in strong use in 2008. However the United States Navy retired the airframe on 24 September 2004, replacing it with the MH-60S Knighthawk. Of the remaining CH-46's, the Marine Corps plans to maintain its fleet until the MV-22 is fully fielded[9]. Closing ThoughtsAs a Photojournalist for the NBC station in Yuma, Arizona, back in 1996, I was tipped off one day that a CH-46 caught fire on takeoff. I jumped in my truck and raced a few blocks to the base, and the Marines actually let me inside the gate to record that particular aircraft burning intensely. Fortunately, no Marines were seriously injured. The clip ended up becoming part of the coolest news program open I'd ever seen. It isn't a sight I would soon forget. I covered at least two other CH-46 crashes in this time, and also those of several other planes including F/A-18's and A/V-8B Harriers, though none that were fatal as I recall, until the very last one I covered out of Yuma; an EA-6B Prowler that went in at high speed killing all four Marine officers aboard. The CH-46 Sea Knight has its own dark history, but is is not unlike other Marine aircraft in that respect. It seems fair to conclude that the helicopter, however outdated, really has a remarkably successful record in the bigger picture, and they have without question, carried countless Marines back to safety. The story of the Marines who took part in Operation Hastings is one of immense courage, tragic loss, and hard lessons learned. It is both harrowing and extremely historic, I hope any who read this will take a moment and leave a comment, or drop me an email, this article is a tribute to all of you. Please note: Comments on this story need to be respectful or they will not be approved, thanks. References:
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Anonymous November 10, 2019 7:34 pm (Pacific time)
My father was on one of the two helicopters that collided on the ground that day. He was a Lance Corporal and part of a mortar group. He survived the war and went on to be the backbone of our family. We thank God he is still with us today. Thanks to all you that served!
Fred Couisns April 12, 2019 3:50 am (Pacific time)
Mike Cunnion and Jim Cherrick were on the 5th bird 12150. I was in BootCamp with both, it was shortly after we grad. and went to ITR and Staging. They were both good outstanding Marines.Email frededog@gmail.com
Tim March 25, 2019 8:12 am (Pacific time)
This is for RICHARD J MASON. YOU ASKED ABOUT Richard Wifford Demers. he was shot in the right chest and right arm. He was on a night defensive position, on hill 10 at Tien Dao. He will always be remembered.
Manuel J. Amparano February 4, 2018 2:08 pm (Pacific time)
I was on the ground with 2/4 H&S company and witnessed the CH46 taking hits from the ground and it burst into flames as it was flying over our position.
Peter Cunnion September 19, 2017 12:35 pm (Pacific time)
My brother was PFC Michael A. Cunnion. He was on EP 171, which was shot down by AAA fire on 07/15/66. I have 2 squadron patches for HMM 265. One is tan colored, with a Chinese character on it. The second has a fire breathing sea horse on it. Does anyone know which is correct? Also, would anyone have the GPS coordinates of LZ Crow? Thanks. Semper Fi.
Jersey Jim Brey March 28, 2017 1:57 pm (Pacific time)
I was crew chief on YT-21 that faithful day during Hastings. I didn't see the crash as it happened, but sure saw and felt the site on another flight into the LZ. Terrible, terrible day. God Bless those who perished, God Bless those who made it out, and God Bless all who served in Nam. Semper Fi!
Richard j Mason February 10, 2017 10:54 am (Pacific time)
I'm looking for information about my uncle lcpl.Richard Wilford Demers 3rd bn 7th Marines 1st Mar Div.III Maf.kia july15 1966 Quang ngai province.i just need to know about his life and sacrifice,im named after him.anyone know of him or remember him? Please anything is appreciated.thank you all so much for your sacrifice,god bless..my email is masonjrich74@gmail.com
Anonymous February 10, 2017 10:46 am (Pacific time)
Richard j Mason
Richard Britney February 27, 2016 10:14 am (Pacific time)
My Cousin was Michael A. Cunnion would love to be able to pin point on the map the exact location of the incident or gps cords if possible
Anonymous July 22, 2014 1:38 pm (Pacific time)
it sucks for me, all i knew about my real father was his name was john and his helicopter got shot down, never knew him, God Bless
C Alvarez December 19, 2013 6:03 am (Pacific time)
the Marine CH-46 Sea Knight in Southern California is my husband. Semper fi
It is an honor to have you here, do you have a photo of your husband that we can add to this?
Many thanks
Salem-News.com
steve holgate March 4, 2013 10:56 am (Pacific time)
I was in 4th helo behind the 3 that went down,and so close to the one later that day that burned all nite also transferred as MP at Tustin base from vietnam
Tim King, Semper fi Steve, I would appreciate being able to share this with the public, this is an extremely important story, can you please write to me at tim@salem-news.com or timking@journalist.com? Thanks!
Steve eid June 11, 2012 12:31 am (Pacific time)
HMMT-164. The T does not represent "transport" it represents training. 164 turned into a training squadron at Pendleton. I worked for them. They train pilots and crew chiefs and do absolutely nothing else.
Editor: Thank you for clarifying.
Anonymous April 23, 2012 10:27 pm (Pacific time)
You are cool Tim..I wish countries could forgive and discuss as we did. Great info you gave also, I will keep up my research also. I hope to add a bit of spice to your website, keep ya motivated and maybe share in the posts things you cant share to the mainstream as you mentioned.. I totally understand, thanks for clearing that up. You seem to be Christian yes? How about a song then to end the evening? later my friend, I will try so hard to be professional and kind in my posts. I am a bit crazy tho, ya might have to put up with me once in awhile :-) song: bryan duncan re-did paul mccartney song, maybe Im amazed. I am a fan of Jesus. See ya on next articles that catch my attention... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKyVUQI90tM p.s. I am even getting along with Daniel, and I miss Henry.
Anonymous April 23, 2012 8:16 pm (Pacific time)
One last thing..I was probably about 12 when my brother went to viet nam. He did tell me, it was a difficult decision. But here is my point. I remember, my dad was a missionary to American Indians. In Bell Gardens, next door to Huntington Park, and I grew up in Maywood, so we have more in common than just long hair. And yes, I moved to Oregon for my kids and I do like it here. But anyway, one Sunday, at church, my dad put up an article on the posting board. It was about my brother..Seems as tho he got major awards for rescuing his Captain and several others. I cant even imagine, he was the gunner in the helicopter, the first target for the enemy. I asked my dad if I could take the article, he said yes, and I held on to it for years. I sure love my brother. He is now a missionary near TJ Mexico, helping orphaned kids. ok, thats all for today..thanks for chatting, maybe I can add a bit of spice to the website? And again Tim, what you wrote previously was awesome..
Tim King: Yes, Maywood, that is close, and I caught yesterday that one of the Marines killed in the helicopter fiasco, Lance Corporal Michael Gooden, was from Belflower, just south of where you grew up. My brother Kenny almost went to OCS in '68, he had a slipped disc and could not go, I'm glad, this reminds me why. Thanks Stephen.
Anonymous April 23, 2012 8:01 pm (Pacific time)
Great job guys..And keep in mind Tim, I did not start the argument, I only reacted. I reacted irresponsibly, but it was a reaction. I apologize. Anyway, your response was great. I have read the book by smedley along with writings by lindberg, eisenhower etc..
I will have to do more research on the taliban, I sometimes think we might be getting more propaganda than truth. But check this out, how can we change anything in another country, when our own country lies, cheats, steals, kills etc. The taliban has caused very little havoc compared to what the west/U.S./NATO has caused. Libya is a perfect example. Libya was doing fine, and now they are in civil war, instigated and caused by the west. And from what I understand, the CIA uses the taliban, like they use "alCIAda" to be their scapegoats and do their dirty work. I think where you, I, and Daniel disagree, is I think their is an elite group, around for centuries, that control things. And these elite people are satanists and eugenicists. I know other countries have their problems, but in my opinion, the west is causing more problems. Depleted uranium, devaluation of the dollar causing massive starvation, pay for profit prisons with people serving years just because they had a drug habit, GMO killing us, flouride poison in the water, etc etc, I could do this all day long..Why dont we fix our own country first maybe? And about religious zealouts? How about the U.S. republican party? :-) does the taliban send bllions to israel to kill palestinians?
Thank you and Daniel for taking time, and you both made great points and a positive direction in my learning.. Especially yours Tim..You are one heck of a writer, you write from your heart. Thanks again.
Stephen, with regard to the Rothchild/Bilderberg-esque side of things, I am not in opposition to that belief, I just can't go there very often because I am dealing with a mostly mainstream audience. I don't object to the content that does sometimes pass through here referencing such things. As you know we have spent a lot of time on the GMO thing, and we are always plying the waters when it comes to Dow and Monsanto. Just know we mean well.
Regarding the Taliban, I do not believe they are doing anything for or with the CIA, they are too rooted in their own issues and problems. The US would not even talk to them for a long time, when ISAF was quoting their leaders regularly. Al Qaeda is as you know, the name of the CIA operation to fund the Mujahideen rebels fighting the Soviets in the 80's. The Taliban was one of the groups fighting the Jihad, but only one. Remember 'The Northern Alliance'? Those are the other guerrilla groups and they had a great leader named Massoud, he was killed the day before 911 by assassins connected to the Taliban. His face is all over Kabul on trucks, posters, billboards, etc. This guy was a university student, not a religious nut. So I guess I'm saying that there is and never was a connection with Taliban, who people in Afghanistan fear and know, and the al Qaeda group which nobody there knows anything about, other than the incessant media reports. Thanks a lot.
Anonymous April 23, 2012 3:27 pm (Pacific time)
Tim..you and I have had our ups and downs, but we are still here I suppose..Indulge me while I simply ask a question. This is important to me, because its personal.
What do you think I should do? I am asking. I do my homework and my research, as mentioned, I have no agenda but truth. And from that truth, then people can decide their path. Its very difficult for me to support the marines, or that k-9 dog, etc. The reason this is personal, is because a couple months ago, I basically told my older brother, navy helicopter gunner in nam, that he did not fight for our freedoms, but from lies from the elite to continue world domination of tyranny.
He hasnt talked to me since, and says to me that I could not talk the way I do if he wasnt out there protecting my freedoms.. I disagree with my brother, but admire his service. I am not just so sure that I should support marines, or any military group, that simply does what they are told and brainwashed to do..As mentioned before, we have marines guarding opium fields in Afghanistan, flooding the U.S. with cheap and potent heroin. Then, the addict gets arrested and goes to a for-profit prison..I have 100 more examples.
How many wars have marines fought only for the elite bankers? All of them. NONE of them were for our freedom..We have been losing our freedom steadily for decades...The fact is, the marines faught for the the enslavement and tyranny of the U.S.
Ok, you can ban me, or whatever, but I really am asking a question from my heart, and wondering what your thoughts are..Dont yell at me, take a few minutes, think, and calmly answer..I need answers. I was a corpsman in the Navy by the way, top ten of my classes etc.. I support the troops, but I do it by telling the truth, not by patting them on the back for past wars where only the elite globalists won. All military needs to be educated to what is really going on...That is how I support the troops, by exposing the lies they are fighting for. What they did, is done and over with, but what about tomorrow's marines? Will they fight for the bankers too?
DJ: Read Smedley Butler's 1934 book War is a Racket and tell your brother about what Butler said in his years of speaking engagements. He said far more powerful things than what you have outlined above.
Tim King: Thanks DJ, Smedley Butler's story says a great deal. With regard to your questions Stephen... and ignoring the really crappy things you wrote recently about us that were personal in nature, first, I wish I could say with all of my heart, that I believe all wars, all fighting... is avoidable and not necessary. Sadly it is human nature and if we accept that, then we can work on it, but we haven't gotten people that far yet. Citizens should have come unglued over the Iraq invasion, but they truly are sheep.
With regard to Marines, part of the population is somehow exactly cut out for this work, not the bad wars, not the unacceptable treatment of Veterans, but a segment of society does include the warrior/defender. I have to say too, that while my sons have been able to grow up without excessive fear of violence in school, etc.,, I had no such luck, as a white kid growing up in Huntington Park, California, about seven miles west of Downtown LA. Everything was about gangs, sets, and violence. So I didn't grow up believing anything in life was possible to achieve without some level of inescapable violence. I have to say that Oregon has shown me another side of life, and that is good. Anyway, another part of it always, is culture. Families are either anti-war, pro-war, or even worse, they are apathetic and do't even let the information in. This is the "I don't watch the news" set. My culture is the Marine Corps, it can't be changed, it is how it is, and that is why this content is here, no question about it. But I don't support the stupid, unessential or illegal/immoral parts of it, you know I don't.
Vietnam: like all wars, people that participate are generally apolitical when they join up, or they are vaguely political; patriotic, etc. When people go to war and see what it is actually about; the death and destruction, the terrible sounds, the fear that is born from all of this, it changes many people. Those who figure it out; arriving at the conclusion that most war is terrible and wrong, they end up like so many of our writers. Vietnam, do you have any idea how bad the Communist forces were to their own people? And bear in mind that we write about My Lai and educate people about the negatives, but it would have been great if the Americans could have won. When you read about that war, you learn one overpowering thing, that is that South Vietnam was corrupt in ways that are ridiculous and that much of what went wrong, was a result of that.
This story is about history, my past briefly overlapped with HMMT-164 and that made this mostly untold story all the more interesting to me. Plus, I have been an aviation fan for meany years. Those who were part of this, they were all young Americans doing what all people do everywhere, serving their nation. It is honorable and it exists, so I thought it was a fascinating subject for a tribute article. As far as the Marine Corps dog goes, why don't you look at it this way: we are obviously trying to educate Americans constantly in ways that bring a great amount of criticism, to me the USMC dog is a simple and heartwarming Veterans story, it isn't anything to get political about because it is after the fact, and you would be surprised around the Marines, at how consistent this service is, how dedicated they are.
Also, Afghanistan: Do appreciate that the Taliban are mindless religious zealots, they are the guys who destroyed Buddhist statues that had stood for over a thousand years, they beat women in the streets and they force them to live in a way that I would find unacceptable for a convicted murderer. I personally would like to see the Taliban have their ass handed to them, and nobody is winning if Karzai keeps calling these morons 'brother'. They are not anything but a negative manifestation of religious extremism, they are up there with abortion protestors who shoot doctors, men who abuse women and children, etc. I hope against all hope for a better day for the people of Afghanistan, they are beautiful and even if our involvement in this particular war is for the wrong reasons, we are indeed there and should help establish a country worth living in. The Taliban don't listen to talk of peace, they laugh at our calls for a dismissal of violence.
I'm not sure if I answered your questions, but I tried to express where we are coming from. I don't support what is wrong with the program, only what is right, hence the recent pairing with OCCUPY MARINES. It is a heartfelt group with a mission of peace and justice and we are on-board that train. Strength is necessary, and the Marine angle attracts a lot of people to our site as we are a fairly specialized news agency, as you know. Peace, Stephen
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