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Jan-09-2014 23:18printcommentsVideo

EXCLUSIVE: Feds Tell Veteran He Will Lose 2nd Amendment Rights Because of PTSD

When did serving your country become a crime?

Pat Kirby during the Vietnam War, and today.
Pat Kirby during the Vietnam War, and today.

(MYRTLE CREEK, OR) - (Also see related article: Feds Are Spending Billions to Help States Avoid Privacy Laws to Ban Firearm Ownership)

If Pat Kirby has his guns taken away by the federal government, then everyone else is probably going to eventually face the same thing. The clock is ticking. Pat Kirby is a decorated Oregon Vietnam Veteran with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). He never imagined he would receive a letter telling him he will have to turn over his guns, or face imprisonment.

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

    - Martin Niemöller

Sue Kirby takes care
the family finances.

Pat Kirby is the ultimate expression of a law abiding American citizen. He served his country, worked hard to raise a family, and created a nice life in spite of his PTSD. But his comfort zone was jerked away when he was told he had to give up one of his most basic rights for the most unbelievable reasons.

His crime?

There was no no crime. The Veterans Administration has deemed Mr. Kirby "incompetent" because his wife takes care of their finances. He has a good credit rating, he pays his taxes, he has never been arrested in his life, yet the federal government says will have to surrender his firearms and give up his Second Amendment right due to the VA's designation of "incompetent". His alleged incompetence is based on his own admission that he does not take care of his own finances.

He and Sue live in a wooded, rural area near Myrtle Creek, Oregon, where wild animals often threaten their property, but now this honorable Vet may be left defenseless.

The word "frustrating" may not be sufficient to describe this family's feelings about the letter they recently received from the Portland, Oregon VA.

Pat Kirby served multiple tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army, earning numerous decorations and medals for his service. Among these are several Purple Hearts. He was a sergeant in the Vietnam War who put all of his effort into saving the lives of his fellow soldiers, and on many occasions that is exactly what he did.

Meeting Pat, you get the sense you are meeting a hero; a man whose personal history is central to the very meaning of this country. Another Veteran who was heavily decorated from his service in the Vietnam War is Stuart Steinberg, a Bend, Oregon resident who was one of the first members of Vietnam Veterans of America He served with various explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) teams during his two tours in Vietnam.

There is no question that Pat's life has been heavily affected by his military service. He has medical issues like so many other Vietnam Veterans, but nothing has had the measurable impact that this ruling does. According to the documents, the demand that Veterans in Pat Kirby's shoes give up their firearms is based on the Brady Bill. I spoke to Mr. Steinberg about Pat Kirby's case, which he has been familiar with for several years.

Stuart Steinberg

"The Brady Act does not, in fact, allow a person like Pat to be denied gun ownership rights. The VA, and, apparently, the Federal government, are using the section about being 'adjudicated a mental defective' to illegally deny men like Pat Kirby the rights he fought for during his 37 months in Vietnam. The key word, there, is 'adjudicated.' A finding by the VA that someone is incompetent to handle his money is not an adjudication. To adjudicate something is to hear and settle a case by judicial procedure. This is not a judicial procedure--it is a finding by bureaucrat who is not a mental health professional. This is something that needs to be resolved by litigation because what the VA is doing is illegal and unconstitutional."

A personal friend of men like John Kerry, Ron Wyden, Stuart Steinberg is a former Georgetown University Law Professor. From 1982 to 2003, he worked as a public defender and as a criminal defense investigator, specializing in capital murder cases. Suffice to say, Mr. Steinberg's opinion regarding this bizarre and unprecedented action of the VA to seize the guns of decorated Combat Veterans who have never so much as been arrested, has measurable significance.

PTSD is a killer, but experts like Dr. Phil Leveque in Oregon, who has battled PTSD personally since fighting in the Second World War, then went on to treat thousands of PTSD Vets as a physician, says that when managed, PTSD Veterans tend to live extremely successful lives. That is Pat Kirby's story.

Dr. Phil Leveque on right, after interview
with PBS Producer Ken Burns

Stuart Steinberg said, "The VA contends that because someone might have problems handling their money, somehow, this makes them unable to own guns. What's next? Are they going to take guns from combat veterans with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, or a Traumatic Brain Injury, even if they have never committed a crime, never committed a violent act?"

It seems fair to assume that if the federal government takes Pat Kirby's guns away, they are sending a message to all Veterans - if they admit they have PTSD from wartime service, they can't talk about it or reveal it at all. They can't seek treatment, they can't tell their VA doctor, because if they do, they will likely receive the same letter Mr. Kirby received. In in this scenario, their wounds will fester and terrible things will happen as a result. That is not alarmist, it is a simple fact based on the history of many cases.

It is important that Pat Kirby says he could take care of his family's finances. He leaves that up to his wife, Sue, and has legal documents with a game plan for Pat's finances in case something happened to his wife. In that event his daughter would take care of his financial matters, and his son-in-law would be next in line. It seems more than adequate and risk free. Sue Kirby stresses that her husband has a very good credit rating, all of this from the VA really took the family by surprise.

The Veterans Administration and U.S. Congressman Ron Wyden are holding a meeting in Roseburg, Oregon at the time of this writing. Sue Kirby read a letter to the assembly of Veterans advocates telling Pat's story, and asking for intervention.

I have a copy of a letter that threatens to take away my husband's gun rights because he has PTSD.

My name is Sue Kirby and I have lived in the Roseburg area for 11 years. My husband is a patient of the Roseburg VAMC.

He is 100% service connected total and permanently disabled. He earned 3 Purple Hearts in his 37 months of service in Vietnam. He has a distinctive service record. He suffers many of the same illness's as other Vietnam Veterans. He has Avascular Necrosis of one hip. He has degeneration disc disease, two knees that will eventually need to be replaced along with his other hip. He has had a benign tumor removed from his mouth, Ulnar, Radial and Carpal Tunnel nerve surgeries, two knee surgeries, 2 back surgeries,hernia repair and a right hip replacement since leaving the Army in 1974. He also suffers from COPD,Sleep Apnea, PTSD and a TBI.

In 2012, his hip was replaced in March after being fee based out to a local surgeon. He waited a year and a half for it. He recuperated from his hip surgery and had about four good months before he woke up on September 15, 2012 with excruciating pain in his neck. Within a week the pain had traveled down both shoulders to his arms and hands, down his back and the back of his legs.

He is a rural veteran in the care of the Roseburg VA. His medical team at the VAMC are kind,caring and compassionate people. They have done everything in their power to try to help him. In a November 2012 MRI he was diagnosed with Cervical Spondylitis. He has bone spurs growing on the vertebrae in his neck causing impingement to his nerves. He has received two Cortisone shots that gave him little relief. He didn't like how the stronger pain pills made him feel. He had adverse reactions to several other pills by breaking out in hives. He was sent to physical therapy which failed.

He was then sent to the N.W. Pain Clinic at the Portland VA last June. They said he was a good candidate for surgery to remove the bone spurs, they also talked of another surgery to kill the nerves. They sent their findings to his primary care physician at the Roseburg VA. She requested a visit to the Neurology Spine Clinic at the Portland VA. She got him an appointment for Nov. 29th. 2012, 13 months after the initial pain set in.

Two weeks before his much anticipated visit to the Portland VA, they cancelled his appointment and set it forward to May 2014. When asked why they had cancelled, I was told they had shortage of Orthopedists and Neurologists. When his primary care physician found out his appointment had been cancelled she quickly applied for Fee basing out his surgery to a local surgeon. Her request was turned down twice so she sent her third request to the Chief of Staff at the Roseburg VA.

When asked why he was turned down, we were told it was a lack of funds. After the third request was turned down we resorted to plan B. My husband switched his Medicare to an Advantage Plan during open the enrollment in October, we plan to pay for it with our own money. These are the words of a trusted friend and service officer from Vietnam Veterans of America. I quote " Because of lack of funding for diagnostics and treatment,veterans are dying because they are not diagnosed in time or treated in time, when suffering from potentially fatal conditions. One of the biggest problems is the lack of funding for the Fee Base program."

He filed an application in Feb. 2013 for Aid and Attendance special monthly compensation. We went to two Comp. and Pen. exams in Oct. at the Roseburg VA. In the exam done by a psychologist my husband told the examiner that due to his constant pain combined with his PTSD that I take care of paying the bills, setting the budget and taking care of any disputes that sometimes arise with billing problems. I have been doing this since we 1972 when we first married. I now do online banking which he couldn't do because he knows nothing of computers. We received a determination which I want to read a few parts from. "The VA examiner found you are not capable of administering your funds. We propose to rate you incompetent for VA purposes. If the VA decides that you are incompetent to handle your benefit payments, VA may appoint a fiduciary to manage your payments. A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving,or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both pursuant to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act".

My husband is not the only veteran who has received this letter. I know a lady who has been doing their finances for 49 years who's husband got the same letter after he had a massive stroke.

We owe our veterans the best possible care we can give them, no matter what the cost is. They have already paid for it with the sacrifices they have made for our country. We owe them the respect and dignity they deserve. We don't need to threaten their 2nd,5th and 14th amendment right that they themselves fought to preserve. My husband is not the only veteran with PTSD, should they all lose their rights? Should they be afraid to ask for help because of fear of something like this happening? Should they have to wait years for ratings, diagnostics and treatment while in both physical and mental pain?

Update: No representatives from Wyden's showed up at the meeting, this holds true for two other Oregon politicians as well.

Special thanks to C-Span for the following links:

Congressional Links
Gateway Page for Links to Anything Having to Do With the U.S. Congress

Congressional Directory
First Place to Go to Track Down Leadership, Membership or Committee Information

Elected Officials
Start Here to Get Information About Contacting Federal, State & Local Elected Officials - How to Write Letters to Congress

View articles written by Tim King


Jerry Freeman is part of a new generation of dedicated news photographers who entered the Internet news industry as a second career. He shares in common with many people who fulfilled their life dream of becoming a visual journalist. Joining the Navy at an early age, and the Oregon Army Guard a few years later, Jerry has a wide range of life experiences. He describes himself as “a truck driver with a new found passion to bear witness to the world’s events.”

Teaming up with he embarked on a new career as a video news photographer and reporter. Jerry's quick exhibition of natural talent and ability to shoot breaking news led to his becoming a published member of the team.

Comments Leave a comment on this story.

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Roger J February 10, 2014 12:03 am (Pacific time)

I didn't know John Kerry was secretary of defense. We are fortunate he isn't.

Error is corrected, thanks for citing that Roger.  Trust me I covered the whole Hagel thing, bad on my part.

Anonymous January 30, 2014 4:58 pm (Pacific time)

I wonder how many of those daily 22 veterans commit suicide with a gun? Also I know plenty about PTSD. If you have PTSD due to an auto accident then you would not be a risk with a gun but possibly a car. My aunt had a bad car accident and will not let anyone else but her drive. If your auto accident PTSD is severe enough that you are a risk to other drivers on the road and should have you DL taken. I'm a crime victim myself and don't feel the need to own a gun, so if a DR told me I had PTSD and am never allowed to own a gun, the so be it. Yes it is quite possible that most crime victims would be a risk to society if they were to own guns, that would be up to their doctor to decide.

Well you are entitled to your opinion but you are essentially saying you agree to fascist politics.  You are saying one size fits all, I say there is no justification for this unprecedented Orwellian development.  

Anonymous January 30, 2014 2:19 pm (Pacific time)

Obviously anonymous doesn't know too much about PTSD. There is no cure once it becomes chronic. Just like a TBI,you can only treat the symptoms. Lot's of people have PTSD, violent crime victims, rape victims, auto accident victims ect... Should they all lose their second amendment right? Are they all a danger to society?

Anonymous January 30, 2014 2:14 pm (Pacific time)

To anonymous who mentioned greed. This veteran applied for Aid and Assistance for the medical problems he is having, not for the PTSD. Aid and Assistance is a special monthly compensation for those who require help and care in their daily living. If the VAMCs would take care of our veterans in timely manner this wouldn't be happening at all. Read the wives list of illness again. Our veterans are dying and suffering needlessly while the VA drags it feet. Lack of doctors, lack of diagnostics, lack of funding. Veterans are waiting from two to five years on rating decisions. Our veterans are returning from these wars only to fight another battle with the VA. That's probably why we have 22 of them committing suicide a day. We now have lost more veterans to suicide from Iraq and Afghanistan wars then to the war it's self. The fact that you would call veteran greedy is an oxymoron. Did you serve? Did you sacrifice on behalf of those who couldn't or wouldn't?

Anonymous January 25, 2014 8:12 am (Pacific time)

I did in fact read the article very closely. I did not say that he was getting what he deserves, only if he's being greedy to get the much higher income from the VA. I admit that I know nothing about this individual other than what is in this article. As you put it, it does sound as if he has a legitimate diagnosis of PTSD. Keeping his guns should be a low priority for him. He should be more concerned about getting the mental help he needs to get better. The article's second sentenced said "the clock is ticking". Again I stand by my comment that it is common sense. If you have PTSD you are going to be grouped in with all the othe mental patients and have your guns taken away. It doesn't really matter what one did for the country; they are scared of PTSD people having flashbacks a shooting up a place. No disrespect, just fear. It doesn't matter to me what leads up to PTSD, but I do know its effects on people afterwards. They are a risk so it is justified to have certain rights taken away.

Anonymous January 24, 2014 10:34 pm (Pacific time)

When he went to his 2 comp. & pen. exams, it says he "told" the psych that he had pain and PTSD.....that diagnosis can only be made by a dr. A patient can't just claim they have it. So something is missing. This sounds much like my stepdad's scenario. He was also found to be 100% disabled. He got VA disability pay, but to get the big $$ he had to have a diag. of PTSD due to combat duty service. Having joint pain and math difficulties does not give you a diag of PTSD. Either the psych grossly misdiagnosed this guy or he "convinced" the psych that he has PTSD. If he was being greedy then it seems he got what he deserves. It is also irrelevant whether he has a criminal record. That 70 year old cop that killed the guy in the theater a few weeks ago, also didn't have a criminal record...until he killed the guy. Obviously society is getting more anti-gun and certainly anti-mental-patients-owning-guns. Common sense would tell you that, yes, if you want to keep your guns, then keep your mouth shut. If you are that disturbed and/or depressed, then get over owning your guns and get the mental help, and feel better.

Mr. Kirby is a four tour Combat Veteran who received numerous high level medals and commendations for bravery, including multiple Purple Hearts.  He is part of an upcoming documentary with his Marine grandson about multiple generation Combat Vets.  If you  read up a little, you will learn that it is virtually impossible to experience the years of combat that he did, and not have PTSD; it is a human reacion.  So therefore, your speculation amounts to zero, "gets what he deserves" - what a thing to say.  You seem to be unclear, please go back and read the story, our PTSD tag word will take you to hundreds of articles about PTSD from experts like Dr. Phil Leveque.

Anonymous January 20, 2014 10:06 am (Pacific time)

If there is going to be a war, let the first shot be fired in our own back yard!

Sandy January 14, 2014 1:08 pm (Pacific time)

May this Vietnam veteran get legal relief soon.

Mr. Stone the study you referenced below is in conflict with many recent university studies, including one done recently by Harvard. Also the CDC came out with data recently on order from the Whitehouse, and it backfired, so the mainstream media has ignored that one. In fact all scholarly studies that refute the Brady type agenda's are ignored. As far as someone going to California and buying guns elsewhere, seems that really will not impact the current firearms already there in any significant way. Also look at how many businesses and people are leaving California presently. Maybe there will be less and less firearms there as people relocate? Will gun crime go down there then? Doubtful when you look at other locations with severe gun registration laws like Chicago.

As you may be aware of, to make the federal gun regulations (background checks more pervasive and onerous) a national policy, it means that all firearms must be registered. Canada tried that recently, spent considerable treasure, and decided to discontinue and/or try to find another method.

When you have FBI data that shows that with over 100 million "rifles" existing in America (and a tiny % of those are of that scary .223 round [sac])and that more people are homicide victims via "Hands and Feet" it becomes problematic for the gun grabbers to deal with facts so they develop statistical databases that when held up to the light fail in their methodology, thus their conclusions are neither reliable nor valid in a scientifically replicable format. As we all know "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

By the way gun crime has been going down for many years now, even though gun sales have been at record highs since November of 2008, ditto for new CHL's, which number in the millions and have extremely low criminal revocation rates.

I see in California your legislature is thinking about doing background checks for buying ammo. So what's next, do that also on a national level? Indeed, we may end up with tens of millions of our citizens in violation of federal law. In the meantime these congress people who are actually trying to dissolve the Supreme Courts ruling on the 2nd Amendment have their armed bodyguards. This is a problem that is fading, not getting worse as the grabbers are opining, so maybe more truth in sentencing laws for violent criminals, and the re-opening of in-house mental hospitals would be a better way of approaching all violence.

People are not going to allow for this nonsense about more gun laws why the thousands on the books are not being enforced, as past elections have shown, so maybe the far left should push for it so we can assure that they are replaced with those who understand the Constitution, not those who practice law using the constantly evolving "case law" method, which is not Constitutional in many court decisions in my opinion, but political "garbage in, garbage out." It is a terrible situation for the uninformed citizen and the low information voter, but a far more dangerous situation for our Republic when grabbers are not exposed for their disinformation.

Ralph E. Stone January 13, 2014 8:14 am (Pacific time)

Sandy, I beg to differ ( Unfortunately, Californians who live in a state with many gun control laws can just simply cross into Nevada with few gun control laws and buy guns. That's why we need sensible federal gun control laws.

Aly January 13, 2014 6:54 am (Pacific time)

This is so disgusting that in this country this is occurring daily. The rights of some are being removed without a care in the world. Our forefathers are turning over in their graves. Incompetency, is based on the three prongs of the Dusky Case and the Drope case, its about understanding court procedures, NOT whether someone takes care of your financials. Shame on that psychologist!

Ernst Becker January 13, 2014 5:19 am (Pacific time)

All Hands:

We bare witness to " not so rare times ". PAT KIRBY is an All American Hero. He honored his country while fighting down South in The Republic That Once was Vietnam. He served when it was a difficult time to wear the Uniform of The United States Armed Forces. We were branded as baby and women killers, far too stupid to run off to Canada, etc. We were mocked after, upon our return home, after having been severly wounded in combat. There is no one that can tell me I, as well as other Vietnam Vets, that we were suckers for fighting the Communists. It was ridicule by know nothings.
Now is the time for ballots -- not bullets.

SANDY January 12, 2014 10:03 pm (Pacific time)


Me January 12, 2014 9:23 pm (Pacific time)

You value your Rights as a Vet, Avoid any and all medical facilities. It's that simple.

Ralph E. Stone January 12, 2014 7:16 am (Pacific time)

Presently, only people who buy guns from licensed dealers have to undergo a background check. The 2004 National Firearms Survey suggests that some forty per cent of gun owners acquire their weapons from non-licensed suppliers. A recent study published by the American Medical Association shows that states with more, and stricter, firearm laws have fewer firearm fatalities, even controlling for those states’ socioeconomic characteristics. It’s true that a background check would not have stopped Adam Lanza, who had no criminal record, and whose mother had reportedly bought the guns he used in Newtown. But laws influence culture, just as culture influences laws, and if Congress had enacted a serious piece of gun-control legislation perhaps that might initiate a subtle shift in American attitudes toward guns. However, if lawmakers won’t pass even a modest reform supported by the vast majority of Americans, they will be capitulating to the N.R.A.’s corrosive view that the only answer to gun violence is more guns.

Molonlabe January 11, 2014 11:43 am (Pacific time)

Volunteers needed. Set up a perimeter around this mans home.

Anonymous January 10, 2014 8:50 pm (Pacific time)

I will talk with Rick tomorrow and let him know about the others from other states that are getting the same letters. While I admit the VA system is terribly broken, I know for a fact this is not just an Oregon issue. I wish Rick could have been at the town hall meeting last night in Roseburg when they had to stop the meeting because our proud veterans starting voicing their opinion on the care they receive or should I say lack of care they are receiving from our local VA.

Kerry January 10, 2014 7:16 pm (Pacific time)

In my recent comment I neglected to mention that I am Pat's brother and a Vietnam vet also so I have first hand witnessed the physical problems that he has experienced and would like to clarify my previous comment about his ability to do any of the tasks required to maintain their place, there are a number of things that he used to do, the wood, snow any kind of clean up he hasn't been able to do them for close to 2yrs. If he needs anything thank god he's got family, it's obvious to me the V.A. isn't helping much.

Rick Staggenborg, MD January 10, 2014 6:55 pm (Pacific time)

While this situation is outrageous, it is not as damning as it seems. It does reveal problems at both the Roseburg VA and the Portland Regional Office, but not a systematic problem as Tim's article implies.

I can probably name the psychologist who determined Pat to be incompetent. It is almost certainly one of two whose similarly unfounded determinations I discovered working as a VA psychiatrist and examiner. In three cases, I had to get Portland to reverse by providing another opinion with evidence to back it up.

This shows that neither Roseburg nor Portland took the initiative to deal with the problem the first time I pointed it out. The primary responsibility should have been with Roseburg. I made my concerns known to the the appropriate person, but to my knowledge there was neither disciplinary action taken nor adequate counseling performed or it would not likely have happened again. I can't say with certainty because I had not right to know the outcome of any possible action the administration might have taken.

Portland might have noticed a pattern and expressed its concerns to the facility, but there does not seem to be a mechanism in place to detect such patterns. I would think that there should be a way to track how many decisions a given examiner has reversed and why so that action can be taken, but that would most likely be something most Regional Offices would expect from CO, which hands down dictates constantly, many of which do not make sense, especially if they come from Congressional directives.

I am not apologizing for the VA fubars. I don't work there any more and have no dog in this fight. I still stand up for veterans, but it is important that the VA as a whole not be unfairly maligned. Too many combat vets in need of service already hesitate to go there because of horror stories, true or false.

I will contact Susan to see if I can help with this case.

We both realized that you and she are friends, very very cool. 

Anonymous January 10, 2014 3:10 pm (Pacific time)

Please note that the coming Oregon legislature has every intention of creating law(s) making it a crime not to come forward and register all your firearms as per recent news reports. They say they are closing a background check loophole on private sales. The only way they can have a law such as this is to have a companion law requiring registration, including criminal penalty statutes. Considering that there are no major uptick in gun crimes in Oregon, and that this potential law(s), is actually milder than other restrictive laws found in places Like Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, etc., who have high gun crimes...why are they passing a law that will have no significant impact on gun crime? People this is a national movement to register all firearms, and what has history shown us when a government has done this elsewhere? Again why not just have all convicted felons register their firearms? Of course that will not happen! Please contact your democratic officials and let them know that turning Oregonian gun owners into criminals for not registering their firearms will not let's vote these people out of office. It is the democrats who want this people, why? Remember Sen. Feinstein who wants this done on a national level? Well, she have armed guards taking care of her. How many of you have the resources to do that? When they did this in Australia, and other locations, gun crimes went up. Gun crimes in Oregon are pretty low compared to those American locations that have ignored the U.S. Supreme Court ruling on the 2nd Amendment. I am a combat vet, and I assure you, we will not follow any unfair/illegal laws.

steve January 10, 2014 1:52 pm (Pacific time)

The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of
law constitutes the law of the land. The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and
any statute, to be valid, must be in agreement. It is impossible for a law, which violates the
Constitution to be valid. This is succinctly stated as follows:
“All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” Marbury vs. Madison, 5
US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)
“When rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or
legislation which would abrogate them.” Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.
“An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no
protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never
been passed.” Norton vs. Shelby County 118 US 425 p. 442
“The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is
in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality
dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding
“No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.” 16
Am Jur 2
, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256
Take it to trial then sue them!

Kerry January 10, 2014 1:44 pm (Pacific time)

I thought this article was excellent and served up at the right time, there is no question in my mind that the V.A. is overstepping their authority,as for as being incompetent they've really missed the mark, despite all Pats physical problems he still cuts his own firewood, plows his roads in and out, takes care of all the maintainence around the place, I feel the gov. owes him a hand written apology delivered personally by a representative who will stand respectfully in Pat's presence.

mrducksmrnot January 10, 2014 11:31 am (Pacific time)

Definition of PTSD=a psychological reaction that occurs after experiencing a highly stressing event (as wartime combat, physical violence, or a natural disaster) outside the range of normal human experience and that is usually characterized by depression, anxiety, flashbacks, recurrent nightmares, and avoidance of reminders of the event—abbreviation PTSD; called also delayed-stress disorder, delayed-stress syndrome, post-traumatic stress syndrome. This applies to anyone/everyone. Those who lived thru Hurrican Sandy, Car Wrecks, Loss of a Job, Chris Christie being shocked by his staff and hell even the POTUS of the last Century that may have been shot at. Guess someone is exempting everyone but the Veteran's. It's Time for We The People to clean out this corrupt government and get it back in line with One Nation Under God, Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.

nick burgin January 10, 2014 8:30 am (Pacific time)

bullshit. civilians think they're so much better than everyone because you think you are perfect and don't have problems, and never see the real world. you go do what any veteran has done then come back and get shat on by the people you were supposedly doing it for, and then have all them try and tell you that you are not able to protect yourself from these idiots. I promise when the time comes and either our govt or a foreign one are killing Americans and taking everything, you will regret this.

Anonymous January 10, 2014 7:42 am (Pacific time)

I think this is sad. He serviced his country and been a stand up American. Leave the man along to live his life free!

Anonymous January 10, 2014 1:31 am (Pacific time)

Can anything be more wrong than this? This is something that people talked about years and years ago and I scoffed, and now the day is upon us. Everyone, please contact your elected officials, send the link to this story.

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