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Nov-18-2009 18:05printcommentsVideo

Tea Party Counterprotesters' Violent Clash with Anti-Immigration Crowd (VIDEO)

Who attacked who at a Florida anti-immigration protest?

Salem-News.com
Frame from YouTube

(FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla.) - A media group called World Net Daily, sent Salem-News.com a video clip this morning of a violent clash between protesters at an anti-immigration counter protest in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

The group claims that last Saturday, "Che Guevara supporters with a radical pro-amnesty coalition viciously attacked and bludgeoned tea party protesters at a Florida anti-illegal-immigration rally."

Che Guevara died in 1967. His image lives on through signs and t-shirts and certainly a few campfire stories, but how do you actually support a dead Revolutionary who hasn't been around for 42 years? I quickly realized that the spin on this one was high speed, but I found it interesting.

My first thought after watching the video was that it was pretty alarming stuff, very violent, and the clip has all of these little tags with words telling you what is taking place.

The media group that sent us this video is clearly is on the side of the anti-immigration crowd, but they caused me to believe, particularly with the accompanying tags telling the story, that the pro-immigration crowd may have gone too far.

But then I started searching for related videos on YouTube, and I found the same video, with different captions, published by The ANSWER Coalition, a group that says it has been on the front lines of the immigrant rights struggle for years.

They presented the story very differently.

Video

First version of video, published by the anti-amnesty group ALIPAC

In their words, "several white supremacist organizations, including the Minutemen and Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee (ALIPAC), initiated Anti-Amnesty Tea Parties across the country."

They say the rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, included people holding racist signs like "Spay and Neuter Your Mexican" and chants such as "white power".

World Net Daily claims that two Fort Lauderdale tea party protesters, "were brutally beaten by pro-amnesty activists on the day of the nationwide rally as they attempted to film Florida's Act Now to Stop War and End Racism Coalition counter protest."

The ANSWER Coalition responded yesterday by claiming that the widely circulated ALIPAC video depicting a confrontation between the two sides is a propaganda piece meant to distort the realities of what took place.

ANSWER Florida says they organized the demonstration to show political opposition to what they see as a message of racism, put forward by these organizations.

"The demonstration gathered on the opposite street corner from the Anti-Amnesty rally. At no point did the ANSWER demonstrators cross over to the location of the other rally."

A spokesperson for The ANSWER Coalition says their group is peaceful, but has faced increasing threats when protesting near the different right-wing groups in recent months.

This may help explain an email sent out before the Tea Party by The ANSWER Coalition. It was called "provocative" by The Huffington Post.

The email, according to some, is calling supporters to arms. Right-wing Internet sites have it published everywhere.

The email reads... "This is why we are calling on all people to come out tomorrow, to organize a militant confrontation with the so-called "Tea Baggers". Beating back these forces will require us to organize together, take the streets, fight the racists wherever they show their faces and drive them out of every community"

Version of same video published by The ANSWER Coalition

The ANSWER Coalition says ultra-right and fascist forces are feeling emboldened right now.

Sarah Sloan, National Staff Coordinator for The ANSWER Coalition in Washington D.C. told Salem-News.com today that the word "militant" in the email is mean as a show of strength, and she says it is symbolic of their convictions.

"In this case militant means having a strong feeling or belief in something you are expressing. The people opposing us are carrying guns, they are already threatening and dangerous."

The group stated in a news release, "They have Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Glenn Beck and other right-wing mouthpieces in the mass media pumping out hate, hysteria and xenophobia seven days a week. It would be a serious mistake to minimize the danger posed by pro-fascist elements in the United States."

The Tea Party's ties to racism are proven and simultaneously disproven in another video clip, shot by Phoenix Channel 3 News, of a Tea Party rally in that state.

This shows a racist neo-Nazi trying to unfurl a banner with Hitler's face, being attacked by an angry Tea Party protester who clearly states that the movement is not about racism.

And in his eyes it clearly wasn't.

Video of Tea Party protester attacking a Nazi who arrives

So this group of angry mostly white protesters, who are also the anti-Obama and anti-healthcare crowd, certainly have earnest members who mean what they say and are only in this case, protesting illegal immigration.

But their rallies are also very clearly a no less than a magnet for the scum of the earth, modern-day Nazi party members who are the most flagrant exploiters of American Civil Rights, assembling in ways that are not and have not been allowed in Europe since the defeat of the Third Reich, sometimes with the support of groups like the American Civil Liberties Union.

Of course they have a right to assemble and that is a fact, but in this case they picked a bad crowd, just as they would have if they had set up shop near the pro-immigration demonstrators. This anti-Nazi position demonstrates the common ground that obviously exists between these opposing groups. Hopefully a day will come when these hardcore positions can be abandoned.

Yet The ANSWER Coalition seems as rigidly determined to stem the flow of racism, as the mostly-white anti-immigration crowd is resigned to holding their ground over immigration, healthcare and higher taxes for wealthy Americans.

The ANSWER Coalition says times no longer allow the hoods, white robes and swastikas, the primary symbols of the ultra right, but the core, poisonous message has only been repackaged.

There was a time when militant left-wing groups made big headlines in the world. In the 1950's and 1960's it was people like Fidel Castro, Che Guevera and many others, who fought the ruling classes, along with groups like FARC (Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia – Ejército del Pueblo The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia – People’s Army, and in the U.S., The Symbionese Liberation Army which kidnapped heiress Patty Hearst.

But Sloan says the email comments are not a call to violence, she says they are a reminder as to who they are dealing with.

Robert Erickson punks Tea Party activists, contains profane language

"This is about being able to protest without the harassment of others. We all know that some of these extreme right-wing groups are connected with militias and they carry guns and they are dangerous."

One thing clear in the videos from Fort Lauderdale that seems indisputable, is the fact that a right-wing protester, carrying a video camera, entered the area where the pro-Amnesty counter protesters were assembled.

Exactly what happened is not perfectly clear, but it probably would not have happened if the right-wing protester had not walked into the counter protester crowd.

In a related video, activist Robert Erickson "punked" the Tea Party crowd in Minnesota with a speech that, "exposed the hypocrisy of the white supremacist, racist & xenophobic rhetoric of the right-wing extremists, who use dangerous imagery to frame the immigration debate."

Erickson says meanwhile in Minnesota the Dakota people control .006% of their original land base, which was stolen via fraudulent treaties, genocide and ethnic cleansing.

It reminds me of a friend's 't'-shirt that shows a Native American on a horse with a caption that reads, "Fighting Terrorism since 1492." It is interesting that a small number of Americans have managed to make such a serious uproar under the new President.

When the last one took this nation to Iraq they were the quiet and faithful ones.

-----------------------------------------------------

Tim King is a former U.S. Marine with twenty years of experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist, reporter and assignment editor. In addition to his role as a war correspondent, this Los Angeles native serves as Salem-News.com's Executive News Editor.
Tim spent the winter of 2006/07 covering the war in Afghanistan, and he was in Iraq over the summer of 2008, reporting from the war while embedded with both the U.S. Army and the Marines. Tim holds numerous awards for reporting, photography, writing and editing, including the Oregon AP Award for Spot News Photographer of the Year (2004), the first place Electronic Media Award in Spot News, Las Vegas, (1998), Oregon AP Cooperation Award (1991); and several other awards including the 2005 Red Cross Good Neighborhood Award for reporting. Serving the community in very real terms, Salem-News.com is the nation's only truly independent high traffic news Website, affiliated with Google News and several other major search engines and news aggregators.
You can send Tim an email at this address: newsroom@salem-news.com




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Ersun Warncke November 22, 2009 9:49 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. Fitch, you like some other commentators have a tendency to claim wisdom from experience, sacrifice, etc, and yet can do nothing with this wisdom but try to attack me on personal grounds totally unrelated to the subject at hand, or regurgitate some spiel you heard on the radio or TV. Your words are hollow. What is this much vaunted freedom for which you claim to have sacrificed so much? I don't think you know what freedom is. I find that those who talk the most about sacrifice, honor, or any other virtue are often the least qualified. That is just a general rule. You could be an exception.


Thomas Fitch November 21, 2009 12:59 pm (Pacific time)

Ersun I briefly went over a number of your articles and posts. It appears that you have a limited and myopic perspective on just what Western Civilization is and how it has been a postive force throughout the world. For some unexplained reason I see many young people's mindset stuck in something akin to an introductory level history class. Usually this arrested mindset is cast off when informed students move on to upper division coursework, and certainly by the time they finish grad school or enter the work force and learn to appreciate the value of a hard-earned buck. No doubt serving in the military and having experienced people who have done everything possible to end one's life with unimaginable violence, let's you appreciate just what freedom is and the sacrifices it takes to keep it. Do you have that background Ersun? Or are you like many of our neighbors to the north who have done nothing to earn their freedom, much less be qualified to question what we Americans have done to get and keep ours? And protect theirs. Unfortunately a tiny minority will continue to critizize our country, never fully realizing what it took to allow them to do just that. Fortunately their opinions only mean something to those of similar uninformed/misinformed minds, obviously, and they have no problem finding others who have also been left behind, intellectually. As far as land being stolen, well I guess you could make a point of that no matter where on the planet you went. North and South America, just like the rest of the world at one time or another was made up of of literally hundreds of tribes and thousands of factions. They were continually in battle with other tribes, often enslaving those they defeated, and during times of famine, engaging in cannabilism. Along came Western Civilization, and in time those internal stuggles between the tribes began to dimish. Now we have other internal squabbles going on, and this is also happening all over Europe as new immigrants have been flooding into this area. Ersun your assessment of this country's history, as well as the dynamic forces inherent within Western Civilization is totally in error, but I imagine that isn't too important to you. When the coming struggle arrives, you think you will be prepared? It is coming, and the written and spoken word will mean nothing to those who are motivated by only hate. They hate America not for what we are, but because we are not them.


Ersun Warncke November 20, 2009 3:15 pm (Pacific time)

Engle: I notice that you haven't answered any of my questions... How is progress coming on that? I do not believe that "western civilization" is inherently harmful. I believe that thieves, hustlers, and war mongers are inherently harmful. I believe that society can only function if it is made up of people who do productive work, respect the rights of others, and live in a stable relationship with their environment. If you disagree with those principles, then I would be interested to know what flaws you find in them. Now, I happen to know that in my own family, my ancestors were given a grant to land in South Carolina by the King of England (as if he had any right to distribute land in SC!?!). They proceeded to come to America, enslave people, steal land, and start wars with the natives. Every generation moved farther west, stealing more land enslaving more people, and destroying the agricultural productivity of the land as they went. They made it to Texas, where they ran out of good land to steal, and since then allegedly have turned to exploitation of oil, war, financial fraud, drug dealing, and all kinds of other crimes to support themselves. This is a group of people (not my family in specific, but the third rate British aristocracy who settled the south) with a sick culture, and a sick mentality, and I see no reason not to call it like it is. Why should I leave, and where should I go? I was born here, and I have every right to be here. However, my right to be here is not based on the property rights or laws created by people like my own ancestors. Read my article on morality and the law if you want to know how I feel about immigration laws, or any other laws. Engle, I think that you are missing the point, which is that I accept the truth of our present condition here in America and how it was achieved. You are committing the error, common of politicians and the "liberals" you criticize, of believing your own b.s. What is gained unjustly by fraud and force can only be held by fraud and force. I would rather give up unjust claims than live my life cheating and stealing from other people. Make your own choice.


Engle November 20, 2009 2:31 pm (Pacific time)

Daniel Johnson if you are still drawing breath in ten years you will witness the economic collapse of China. What you see is the mother of all bubbles about to be popped. As far as America saying 'adios to Americanism, not gonna happen. We are, as you know, an exceptionable people who will always get stronger and we will always be helping others on a global level. In fact if you are still drawing breath in 25 years you will see Canada becoming another series of American states. Economic pressures will promulgate this to take place. Even now your ecomomy is barely hanging on. The flag makers are going to make a bundle. Seems that around 4 to 5 more states can be carved out of Canada and then we can just have declared "wilderness areas" in the vast majority of the northern areas. Maybe that is a way to stop all the childish infighting you all are having with your french speaking quasi-citizens? DJ I saw you mentioned the name Sarah Palin, so you have heard of her huh? Very compassionate woman who is no doubt a force of nature. Her positive poll numbers are growing rapidly. In fact the more cheap shots she gets, the more popular. People trust her to the chagrin of a decreasing minority. As far as your tongue in cheek comment about us using "nukes", the best way to prevent that is to assure that our military is not only second to none, but that we constantly make sure that PC and other societal pressures are not allowed to infect the best military in the world. We just got a big wake up recently that shows what happens when PC attitudes become omnipresent.

Fantasy.


Marshall November 20, 2009 11:54 am (Pacific time)

Editor there is a world of difference between going somewhere and observing on a short time basis and actually working a job like border patrol day in and day out. As far as going to a combat zone for a short time stay as you have, that gives you just a brief snapshot of what's going on at that particular time and at those few locations. Even that snapshot is extremely limited. Have you been in ongoing firefights day in and day out? Have you ever been an officer or senior NCO who was in a decision making role where lives were on the line? Many reporters who have gone where you went [ever so briefly] were part of the first wave, and have made many subsequent visits. They can see the difference, the before, middle and what's going on currently. Their opinions have rich experience to draw from, where yours is just very limited verbiage that supports your radical agenda that most simply ignore except for those few of like-minded because it is so limited and biased. It appears you have a superfical experience in a number of activities, but no in depth experience where you have an opinion based on indepth real world experience. Those who do, do, others teach or report what others do, and you are pretty limited in that activity also.


Engle November 20, 2009 11:07 am (Pacific time)

Ersun I base my comments on illegal immigration enforcement in the same way the vast majority of Americans do. If you feel so strongly about how Western Civilization has caused so much harm, why partake? Leave. I have found over the many decades that those who have never had to make sacrifices, and have very little to show for their lives, feel quite similar to you young man. If you have done well, then give it away, be sincere with your position and walk the walk. When approximately 8 out of 10 Americans see it just the opposite as you (enforcement of immigration and illegal immigration laws), you are not going to have much of an impact, but just the same I'm glad people like me were able to secure your right to freely state your minority opinion. Of course another option for you is to change the laws, good luck with that. Sounds like you've had it pretty easy to just want the rest of us to ignore our hard earned soverign rights.


Henry Ruark November 20, 2009 9:51 am (Pacific time)

Engle: Yours re "enforcement" shows confusion and lack of basic understandings about history and development of our "experiment in democracy". On what basis other than your own pretentious contention do you so state ? Here we deal in fact backed by checkable link to someone with special right to speak from experience,study,and own record. What's yours, sir ? Others primarily involved have put theirs right on the line, while you continue to ignore courteous invitation to do so to bolster precarious claim to credibility, based on awkward repetitions here. What do you fear by factual establishment of your special contribution, if any ???


Martha November 20, 2009 8:30 am (Pacific time)

A friend sent me this. WOW. Heads up to King and his ANSWER sources. Immigration laws are not "hate". Neither is it the fault of honest Americans who have had enough of any president ignoring those laws that the nuts in the KKK ( all 8 of them nationwide?) are also against illegal immigration. For all I know, they are against speeding on the highways too. Does that mean speeding is good or that speed limit rules are "hate"? Not much logic here Tim. Good for the no amnesty protesters. They are the ones who have it right. I just found out that we had an amnesty for illegal immigrants in the 80's. Are we to do it every 20 years? Seems counter productive to me.


Reader who is left of ctr November 20, 2009 8:19 am (Pacific time)

Whatever happened to, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.” THE COUNTRY CHANGED - we longer can accept al who want to live here! That's what happened. Come on.

Daniel Johnson: Yes, the country has changed. For a long time Americans have plundered and exploited the rest of the world for its own selfish ends--in pursuit of the "American dream". They used far in proportion to their population of the world's resources. Now some of the other people on this planet want some of their share and Americans don't like it. But America has the power. If any other countries start to get too uppity, just nuke 'em until they leave you alone. That's a tongue in cheek comment, but I'll bet you would find some Americans who would think it's a good idea. Just be glad the Romans didn't have nuclear weapons. The earth would probably still be too radioactive to support human life.


Dick Dem November 20, 2009 8:07 am (Pacific time)

Is king saying if I want borders and a limit to the American population so we don't become another overcrowded chaoticthird world multi-lingual mess I have no moral values? WHAT?


Confused in Salem November 20, 2009 8:04 am (Pacific time)

If we are all only a species or a "human race" and all of us should be allowed to live where ever we choose regardless of another nation's laws...how long before most of the human race would move to the US to collect on our welfare benefits and other goodies?

Will the next health care bill be a one pager that simply says everyone gets insurance paid for by....wait, by who? Should we renounce American citizenship and merely be citizens of the galaxy? This open borders concept is new to me, but I will be doing some research to see how many more people have engaged Utopian high school fantasies of social justice before and instead of actually thinking it through.

These people scare me. I am now very willing to support a TEA party for immigration control.

I have read King before. I see him quite clearly now. He is not exactly pro-American is he?

Daniel Johnson: You suggest that illegals lower wages. You seem to have missed the fact that the real lowering of wages comes from all the jobs that have been shipped to low wage countries around the globe. It's the corporate mind-set that is not "pro-American" but, if you support free market capitalism, you'll just have to like it or lump it. If China becomes the next global powerhouse, it will just be a natural economic evolution, so don't cry about it, but learn to live with it. I've known since I was in high school in the '60s that China's day would come. I just didn't think I'd live to see it. It probably could have been delayed for another generation if American business and their voracious, unthinking consumers hadn't been so short sighted.


Old vet November 20, 2009 7:50 am (Pacific time)

King replies! "I know a lot about this and I think there is a single world with a single group of human beings and I think birthright and official processes are way overrated." There you have it kids: American citizenship means nothing unless everyone have it - which willrender it meaningless. This guy is a hipper than thou liberal who has grown far past the concept of nation, laws and borders. Get used to hearing his attacks on the majority of Americans who still want a defined nation with reasonable, controlled and sustainable immigration. For King, illegallabor is the answer to paying a nickel more for his produce while it provides him fodder to demonstrate how superior he is to the rest of us poor ignorants.

Tim King lacks the cajones to simply say he supports open borders or to acknowledge that the USA is an oppressor for even having immigration laws. A dime a dozen for thinkers like this would be a rip-off.

King will be happy only when we all have the same amount of stuff. Illegals are lowering wages for Americans in their own country while King defends the illegals. Nice.

The responses here reflect the national reality. King is way out there on the edges of society. Thank Goodness.

Daniel Johnson: Tim is definitely ahead of the curve here. Do you deny that we all share the same planet? Nationalism is an idea that appeared out of the 18th century Enlightenment (along with American independence) and is the source of most of the wars since. You write: “American citizenship means nothing unless everyone have it” As Sarah Palin would say, You have it bass akwards. In a shrinking world, the problem is American nationalism and all the other nationalisms. Be prepared to say goodbye to Americanism and join the rest of the human race. You’ll still live in the same place with the same local laws. But humanity is global, not just American.


Henry Ruark November 19, 2009 12:46 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Too-often overlooked in much of racist-impact is fact that many-such--unconsciously or not-so-- still buy into Southern myth re sexual potency of those-attacked... Sedulously now avoided in South, that was painful belief and potent generator of fear among plantation-owners, from fearsome experiences involved in snatching humans from Africa. Fear of revolt drove much of early-Southern lifestyle, as history plainly reports. Trueornot, it is still among psychological torments faced by those who find themselves seeking out racism to erase personal situations. What makes them vulnerable to myth revolves around lack of self- and human-understandings,from psychological/psychotic point of view. Apply to all-such ? No more than doth others also just as obvious...but indisputably this is basis even today for much of


Ersun Warncke November 19, 2009 9:02 pm (Pacific time)

Engle: "Enforcing the law" is a ridiculous pretext. The fact of the matter is that most of this "illegal immigrant" b.s. comes from Texas, Mexico, and California. Guess what? The U.S. stole that land from Mexico. It is the U.S. citizens who are "illegal immigrants" in these territories if you believe in laws. The people who stir up this crap are all thieves. Their insecurity leads them to point their fingers elsewhere and blame others for their own crimes. In the meantime, immigration laws have only one point, which is to create a workforce of cheap labor with no rights. Immigration laws cannot be enforced, and will never be enforced, because the people who created them are the ones who benefit from having a legal fiction that strips human beings of their rights. What is the harm of having people freely migrate? Why shouldn't people be able to live and work wherever they please? On what do you base your right to claim that you can dictate to someone else where they can live?


Doris in Salem November 19, 2009 8:01 pm (Pacific time)

HEY KING! There is a lesson here:Erickson says meanwhile in Minnesota the Dakota people control .006% of their original land base, which was stolen via fraudulent treaties, genocide and ethnic cleansing. For me it is protect our country. For yu it seems to be to surrender - or be called names. You are in the dangerous minority.


Armando Rojas November 19, 2009 7:58 pm (Pacific time)

I am an immigrant who came here legally. It took years and I am now a proud citizen. My brother too.  Mr. King should apologize for saying that I am anti-immigration because I want to end illegal immigration. We can never take in all the people who want to come to the US. It is my country too. Not all Latinos think like the socialist locos who want to call names to us who want stop illegal immigration. Mr. King should go to Mexico to see how the government there treats illegals.

Tim King: I have spent time in Mexico, Iraq, Afghanistan and a few other places where people have many challenges.  I am glad you were able to emigrate here legally Mr. Rojas and I'm glad you and the other fine Americans all have food harvested by thousands of Illegal immigrants willing to do back breaking labor for low wages.  I grew up in a Hispanic neighborhood in Los Angeles, I am not ignorant about any part of this.  If the U.S. had its act together, it would invest in Mexico and create a place that people don't want to leave.  Moreover, Mexico is only one nation that people come to the U.S. illegally from.  As a person of moral values, I do not think building border fences is the way to deal with problems.  They are not effective toward criminals, but they force families to walk into far more dangerous stretches of desert in order to get here.  I knew the Marshal of Welton, Arizona who had to collect the bodies of 28 Honduran people trying to cross into the U.S.  It is sickening and a sign of American failure to be a decent and good neighbor.  I know a lot about this and I think there is a single world with a single group of human beings and I think birthright and official processes are way overrated.   


American worker November 19, 2009 7:52 pm (Pacific time)

This fringe, lefty,writer who apparently has zero respect for American workers (like me) obviously cannot see that until we enforce our immigration laws and secure our borders, we can never solve illegal immigration. What he clearly can see are the mindless talking points coming from the extreme left and the business community who both want open borders for different reasons. Under direction of groups like "LA RAZA", scores of little commentary reports like this are written every week. All with the same smears and lack of thought process. This is one of the more dishonest from this week.  This former Marine would do well to spend a week in the cold Arizona desert ( night patrol!) with the brave men and women who serve in our Border Patrol. If the Americans who want their laws enforced are driving King so bats - the actual capture of the illegals would likely push him further over the edge. This is pure drivel and any (honest)college newspaper editor would have demanded more accuracy, and disclosure. ANSWER is a self avowed communist org and openly demands... open borders. No borders, no USA. Get it?  King should find the courage to do admit his agenda. And stop the race-baiting.

Tim King: You have me dead to rights AW, I have an agenda and it is the human race.  As far as background goes, I was with the NBC station in Yuma for two years and I did many stories with the Border Patrol and Customs in San Luis, Los Algodones and other places.   I did spend the night with agents one night with their Blazer that had an infra-red camera in the Arizona desert.  Also, for all of your insulting words, you apparently missed the fact that I included a clip that clearly showed the better side of the movement, the tea partier standing up to the Nazi, but giving credit obviously isn't your bag.  Anyway, I'll stop driveling and look for my courage.  So far I've only covered two wars, sorry to be so unimpressive.   


Engle November 19, 2009 6:09 pm (Pacific time)

Calling those who demand an enforcement of laws that were created by their elected representatives racist, is fascist, plus it's negative affect is diminishing considerably. If the current administration attempts to bypass the current immigration laws thru some midnight legislative sleight of hand, it will create such division that we will never heal. We are already balkanizing at a quick clip, seems that more energy should be focused on bringing us together and observing what the vast majority of us want done regarding our immigration laws would be a good start.


Henry Ruark November 19, 2009 4:49 pm (Pacific time)

W.Gheen: "Interesting" is an escape word used when one cannot openly express meaning sure to be seen as irrelevant, without content, or otherwise a waste of time, space --and attention for all concerned. IF you have a point, skim Ersun et al and cogitate even a tiny bit --then try again ! We welcome dissent and agreemment both here; but use of escape words irritates hell out of those capable and conscientous enough to speak out-and-up, which is what honest, open, democratic and conscientious dialog is still all about where meaningful transfer leading to sharing and learning is the purpose.


William Gheen November 19, 2009 2:13 pm (Pacific time)

Interesting paradox how this writer fails to understand the significance of a dead communist murderer but leaps at the opportunity to convey meaning behind modern protesters with an image of a dead murderous fascist. Very interesting indeed.


Josie November 19, 2009 2:12 pm (Pacific time)

The below link provides an assortment of different national polls (easy reading and informative) that reflects American viewpoints on a wide variety of opinions on both immigration and illegal immigration. These are scientifically constructed polls. A few summers ago I went down to the U.S./Mexican border in Arizona and saw some of the Minutemen mulling around with the Border Patrol. It was very friendly between them. Within the ranks of the Minutemen were people of all races. They were helping a rancher with his illegal crossing problem on his property which was being devastated by illegals. Approximately half of the illegals here are from those who overstayed their visa's, both student and tourist visas. These people total in the millions and many take both blue and white collars jobs. Talk to building contractors also, and ask them what the trades are like from foundation pouring to roof work (and all those subcontracting jobs inbetween)? You have a super majority of Americans who want all our laws enforced. They are from all racial and ethnic backgrounds. It appears E-verify is a good start. There will always be work visas for farm workers and it is a canard to suggest otherwise. Go to the link and see how you compare with the rest of America. http://www.endillegalimmigration.com/illegal_immigration_polls_surveys/index.shtml


Ersun Warncke November 19, 2009 1:01 pm (Pacific time)

Henry: thank you for pointing out that racism is a myth. After reading this article I read ANSWER's press release concerning it, in which they start by stating that "Racism is like anything else in this world: in order to make it fall, you must smash it!" blah, blah, blah. This kind of crude political activism just makes me want to bang my head against a table. When the best proposal people can make for overcoming fake social divisions, is to use them as a basis for starting conflicts that result in real social divisions, it is easy to see why they never go anywhere. This is to be expected from ANSWER, which by all appearances is still fighting a revolution that is long over using tactics that have already failed, but it is still somewhat tragic. Many of their stated goals are noble enough (opposition to war, racism, etc.) but their methodology seems to be completely incapable of achieving those ends.


Henry Ruark November 19, 2009 12:10 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Daniel et al: Re "tired, poor, huddled masses" --the magnificent flow of those seeking freedom and opportunity here still is flooding...from various other regions, for a variety of other reasons. WHY do you suppose certain "business-interests" have seized on border porosity as major means of making sure we still have massive, mainly poorly-paid labor instantly on call nearly everywhere here ? Do you really believe the Southern U.S.border was left so open,unguarded,so obviously so potently-porous for massive movements, for so long, in so many places, without impure intent by those with impure power to do so ?? Different drastically than with our border with Canada, sir, but hard to assimilate without close contact with the economically-driven displaced from "South of the border" and obviously part of the same cabal-plot.


Henry Ruark November 19, 2009 11:44 am (Pacific time)

Ersun et al: Agree with you strongly on this one: The politics involved here is always both distorted and perverted, since racism is a myth perpetrated to support and extend slavery ever since man first shackled another as his ostensible "property". That action then created the greatest myth of all: That ANYone can ever "OWN" another human being. Reaction forever since the first-such has always shown freedom and liberty absolute winners overcoming all and any adversarial attainment, given a bit of time and patience to fuel, strengthen and finally "define the issue" for the enslaved-one. That's why "We SHALL Overcome" has such a strong, natural, overwhelming impact, as eventual/unavoidable truth. Main motivation for anyone attempting to enslave, in any way including currently some corporate configurations, recognized or not, is always mixture of fear-and-favor, by economic advantage and fearful denial of personal morality and common sense. "If you beat them, will they not bleed ? If you starve them they surely do perish; and if you free them, do they not then just as surely rejoice ?" (Sorry - source unknown but surely truth-reflecting NOW !"


Daniel Johnson November 19, 2009 9:46 am (Pacific time)

Whatever happened to, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.”


John White November 19, 2009 9:35 am (Pacific time)

It is just possible that opposition to the President’s policies are based on principled political disagreements and not race. I am only surprised that it took the left the better part of a year before they began to play the race game in earnest. The new left suffers from schizophrenia as it pertains to race. They claim to want to move past race in this country, but are reluctant to do so. Race provides them with a sense of security; they believe that through race they are able to keep their emotional and moral equilibrium. And because the left is emotionally tied to race it is a potent political weapon the use of which power seekers and power keepers will not soon relinquish.


MaryJ November 19, 2009 7:16 am (Pacific time)

Nowhere in your article do you state that ANSWER is an extreme hard-left, Maoist organization.


Estoban November 19, 2009 6:34 am (Pacific time)

The PC agenda is to change commonly understood meanings of words and phases. "In this case militant means having a strong feeling or belief in something you are expressing. The people opposing us are carrying guns, they are already threatening and dangerous." The e-mail uses 'militant response', 'Beating back' and 'fight'. ANSWER is clearly as demonizing as the KKK ever thought of being. We don't need either extremes of weirdos joining in on matters of rule of law because they don't agree with rule of law and prefer anarchy.


Dave November 18, 2009 7:40 pm (Pacific time)

Tim may be a gyrene and served in the press in active wars but that has not made him unbiased. There are many center to left of center who oppose illegal immagration. If he backs their coming to the US let them have his job.


Ersun Warncke November 18, 2009 10:59 pm (Pacific time)

"Brutally beaten" sounds like a serious over statement from looking at the video. I mean, if you walk up to a group of strangers on the street and start talking trash to them, what do you expect to happen? Trying to turn something so minor into a political issue shows the total lack of substance behind both the "tea baggers" and ANSWER.

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Sean Flynn was a photojournalist in Vietnam, taken captive in 1970 in Cambodia and never seen again.

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